Merging components on Vanilla ships

[Ascendancy]

I voted yes because if something like this were to be done, I would gladly trade in my Viper Mk I and fly the Nephthys I should be flying already. I don't use explosive type weapons, but that kind of buff should I use them would be beneficial overall because explosive weapons should be there to damage components and strip enemies of their weapons/equipment. They are secondary weapons after all...


Ascendancy

---

Thanks to Cattman2236 of E-Studios Forums for the signature.

The Kalashnikov. Still sees use in the hands of Coalition-aligned anthropomorphic cats Sirius-wide.

[Dopamino]

I vote no. We should devote more time to trying to figure out how to separate our new ships into different components.

---

I mostly lurk around Media Center these days.

[Taffic]

I voted no only because I like to watch my ship turn from sleek new to ragged and bent-up. In singleplayer, sometimes your ship would get several wings and fins blown off in the course of a long and brutal campaign. Having that effect is really very important to me, but that's not the way the server is going.

More and more newer models without the blow-away wings are making their way into the mod. Then again, if we merged the models there are some ships that would simply be outmatching every other ship. Right now, most people can agree that the Sabre is the best VHF out there. If the models got merged we would have to rebalance the Sabre, along with others.

The way I see it, we're either going to have to make complex models for the non-vanilla, or make complex rebalances for the vanilla soon-to-be-merged. Two mountains nobody wants to climb, me thinks.

Really though, either way I'd prolly be happy. :laugh:

Other arguments were strong - this made me vote NO.
Surviving a fight, with a wing blown off brings the game alive.
I saw threads on the Crossfire Mod saying the over balancing made the ships too samey (esp cap ships) and it was the differences (fair or otherwise) that brought players back

---

[Treewyrm]

I voted NO. Maybe I'm biased since I'm a nuke whore, but that's the reason too.

Fights will be prolonged and I don't like it.. At all.

If all ships become like non-vanilla, I suggest decreasing armor to some 7k average for VHF's, with 10-11k for tanks (Titan, Templar, Werewolf etc).
Bomber armor would also need a decrease.

Even with these changes fights will be prolonged, and that is something I don't like.. At all.
I can already see myself flying bombers only.. Oh well.:yes:

Also, just to add, I'm flying only Vanilla fighters (except my Viper, which is out of use for some time).
So, no, I'm not a Nuke whore in a non-vanilla ship. That sucks. I'm a real nuke whore!:)

I'm afraid fights are already long enough, regardless of usage of nukes and vanilla/custom ships. Apples and oranges. The issue of longevity of fights should be addressed differently. Specifically it is related to actual weapon damages and projectile speeds as I and others have noted on several occasions long time ago.

This isn't about voting yes or no, this simply has to be done. In long-term sight merging components allows us to utilize splash damage weapons and balance them more efficiently, possibly creating more weapons with AoE thus creating variety and armaments and warfare strategies and tactics. We should look for possibilities instead of locking down and limiting ourselves further stagnating PvP aspect of the game.

My point also is that we are neglecting expanding AoE type of weapons. Remember capship flak fiasco? Reason it was nerfed to nil because of that specific difference between vanilla and custom ships. Nova Torpedo also in a sort of way falls into the category. Absolute majority flying bombers, including myself, are using supernova cannon instead, neglecting torpedo.

[Tenacity]

it isnt that simple... not only would you have to go through and merge all the models into single components, you'd also have to re-balance hull strength on every vanilla fighter that was changed (as right now they're given higher hull than other ships to make up for the explosion weakness).

It'd be nice if it got done, but that's a lot of work you're talking about.

---

[Treewyrm]

it isnt that simple... not only would you have to go through and merge all the models into single components, you'd also have to re-balance hull strength on every vanilla fighter that was changed (as right now they're given higher hull than other ships to make up for the explosion weakness).

It'd be nice if it got done, but that's a lot of work you're talking about.

Nobody said it to be simple. What was said that it is important to do and work on.

[chopper]

I don't see how Nova Torpedos are connected with Vanilla ships.

They kill every god damn thing smaller then gunboat in one shot.
Every single bomber is going to die from it's blast, and everyone knows it.
After people realized it can't be used against fighters effectively (cough suicide weapon cough) they dropped it.
It would kill ANY vanilla or non-vanilla fighter anyway. So that difference is really 0 in this situation.

As for other things, well, I pretty much agree.
But I would still prefer going the other way around, if it's possible in any way.
But since no one can make a custom wireframe, I guess that's impossible.

What I would like to see is some more instant kill weapons.
Instant kill weapons can reduce fight longevity much easier then stronger weapons.
I'm not saying they should be uber for usage, just powerful enough.

---

It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del

[MarvinCZ]

I don't see how Nova Torpedos are connected with Vanilla ships.

They kill every god damn thing smaller then gunboat in one shot.
Every single bomber is going to die from it's blast, and everyone knows it.
After people realized it can't be used against fighters effectively (cough suicide weapon cough) they dropped it.
It would kill ANY vanilla or non-vanilla fighter anyway. So that difference is really 0 in this situation.

Here you go:

Even more crazy is the situation when it comes to capships. For example the Kusari Gunboat dies to 3 Nuclear mines (3x 10k= 30k damage) even though it has 95k*2.5=237,5k armor.
The Osiris for example dies to one Nova Torpedo (46k damage) even though it has 340k*2.5= 850k armor!!

Not only fighters are concerned with vanilla / non-vanilla differences.

[Doom]

while merging parts on vanilla ships sounds nice....did anybody even tried that?...although i do know how to do it, i think it could cause many problems.

Vanilla ships, have moving parts like bay doors, they also use several fuses or triggers who are connected to certain part of the ship. All ships would need to be retextured and rebalanced. New wireframes made for those ships. Hitboxes may cause some trouble (not sure)...

Thing is...just cause we do not make custom ships of vanilla quality, do we really need to reduce quality of vanilla ships?...

I say no...as one of the modelers, i would much rather devote my time and resources to making custom ship of Vanilla quality then destroy somebody else's work...

[chopper]

I say no...as one of the modelers, i would much rather devote my time and resources to making custom ship of Vanilla quality then destroy somebody else's work...

That's what I was looking for!:yes:

---

It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del