If Zoners are getting their caps removed...

[Jihadjoe]

What about Order caps? They're stranded in fug all nowhere with lawful enemies in nearly every house.

This is something of a tricky issue with The Order. They really shouldn't have lawful enemies everywhere. The Order and Liberty, for example, probably shouldn't be hostile to one another. The fact they have been in disco is slightly mystifying to me, due to the ending of the vanilla plotline.

I think this was something of an oversight in the early development of the mod, which has subsequently been justified by having things to do with stationing caps in soveriegn space, and disagreements about nomad experimentation, and so on... But all these reasons being given are largely just trying to find logic in a situation that the two groups have been stuck with. (And possibly giving Liberty a reason not to have the Osiris?)

As for the Order having a cap fleet - they are a small paramilitary group with limited funding, so I tend to agree that their cap-fielding ability is certainly limited. However, they do have lore precedent for the Osiris, which changes the game somewhat.

The Order are a bit of a problem case in this regard.

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[Quiron]

Probably a fair compromise...but I almost want them to just lose them now just for the sheer amount of whining. I'm a father of 2 (soon to be 3) children...and I don't reward my kids for whining when they don't get what they want. They get punished. Otherwise, you just end up with spoiled children.

You are right about it, but you are also forgetting an important thing. There wouldn't have been that much "whine" if the willingness of compromise wasn't one-sided. I guess you usually don't take away your children's favourite toys and simply say "deal with it".

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[Highland Laddie]

I guess you usually don't take away your children's favourite toys and simply say "deal with it".

No, but if they should never have gotten said toy in the first place...yeah. And "taking away" toys is much different than "changing/swapping," but I guess that's just a matter of perception.

[7AlphaOne1]

I vouch for both the Core and the Order here :

read their ids. since the5 cant bring em into houses, why change them?

Core has enough cash to build such a fleet

Order has enough manpower and building capacity and classifi3d whatnots to build a fleet and more ( think thebes)

If zoners had such restrictions, no probs in keeping caps.

simple people:
keep zoner caps
make Jinx see reason
enjoy the game!

Wunderbar! aint it?

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Jay's Quotes

TO FLOOD OR NOT TO FLOOD, THAT IS THE QUESTION.

Well, I've managed to piss off Snak3, Ageira, LH~, Furries, Wisp, but at least Beast is happy.

[Quiron]

No, but if they should never have gotten said toy in the first place...yeah. And "taking away" toys is much different than "changing/swapping," but I guess that's just a matter of perception.

Then who should be blamed for this situation? The child who is crying for his/her old favourite toy or the parent who gave the stuff originally? So, the "punish" is rightful here?

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[7AlphaOne1]

Agree witj quiron. Why were they in0mplemented first? with reason. why are they getiing removed? without reason. just ban aquilons and nephs in systems with jgs

edit:ofc excluding sigmas, taus, omegas and omicrons

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Need some software for FL?looking of a whole database? click here!

Jay's Quotes

TO FLOOD OR NOT TO FLOOD, THAT IS THE QUESTION.

Well, I've managed to piss off Snak3, Ageira, LH~, Furries, Wisp, but at least Beast is happy.

[Highland Laddie]

Then who should be blamed for this situation? The child who is crying for his/her old favourite toy or the parent who gave the stuff originally? So, the "punish" is rightful here?

One parent's bad decision doesn't justify a child getting to play with something they shouldn't really have. And in the case I presented with my children, the punishment doesn't come from them playing with their toys...the punishment comes from their whining and disrespect to my authority as the parent.

If zoners had such restrictions, no probs in keeping caps.

That's part of the problem, yes. If Zoners had more restrictions or antagonists in-general, I could see more justification in them having BSes. As it stands now, their large ZOI and overal diplomatic neutrality doesn't require a BS-strength ship to be a "colony ship."

[Jihadjoe]

Why were they in0mplemented first?

This is a point of some debate, actually...

To quote McNeo on the matter...

Like a bunch of ships, some of which were caps, that nobody could fit in anywhere else, looked cool, and people went "why not?".

There are other perspectives and opinions, of course... This is one point of view being expressed. I personally don't know why the zoner caps were implemented.

But remember - this is not a thread about zoner caps. It is a thread about applying the same principle that led to this whole debate, to other factions.

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[Lythrilux]

Just stepping in here to make a point:
Unlike Zoner caps, these haven't been responsible for overly tremendous amounts of QQ. Namely, breaking ID engagement rules and the like. Furthermore, there's no similar stigmas of zonerzonerzoner.

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[Nexus Ark]

That's part of the problem, yes. If Zoners had more restrictions or antagonists in-general, I could see more justification in them having BSes. As it stands now, their large ZOI and overal diplomatic neutrality doesn't require a BS-strength ship to be a "colony ship."

I assume that you would approve if the Zoner get to keep their capship to restricted them to Edge space only? Which isn't that mostly happening already ?