Note on The Order policies

[Zero755]

Just wondering, what does this leave factions power over?

Laws? Can't enforce them if they go against canon in any way, shape or form.

Guard system? Nope.

Ships? No chance.

Destroying the pvpwhoring idiots? Nope.

... What can we do, exactly?

Seems to me that factions are becoming more and more like glorified get-togethers.

My thoughts exactly, what is the point of becoming official if there are no benefits to it? Shell out half a bil for the request, just so in the end you can post in the "official Factions' thread? Not worth it when you can just remain unofficial and post in the RP hub. With this happening I really don't see why anyone would bother with making a faction official. All work and no gain, because with all the rules (To include Admin Notices like the one Xoria made referencing a faction's ability to control indies) factions are basically indies with shiny tags in front of their name. Well hell I can get a group of people to do that remain unofficial and crap all over the things the 'Official' factions have worked for and they cant do squat about it. Factions need to have some benefit to being a faction.

Well you can buy a system as a faction...

Yea, but now there is no reason to because any Joe Schmo can come and go as he or she pleases and the faction just wasted all the effort into buying the system with no power to enforce control over the system that they 'own'

This is like the Government allowing civilians access to Area 51 to go site seeing.

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[Eppy]

You want to limit independent players to fighters only? Not the most logical approach. Ships placed in guard systems will at least force players to work on their reputation.

Plus, we are not talking only about Outcasts here. There are factions with far less ship-selling bases than the Outcasts. We'll think on how to do it without harming player factions' control over their systems and without restricting other players from getting the ships/weaponry they have a right to get.

I want in no way to limit independents to fighters only. I just want to have the ability to make them jump through a few hoops to ensure they're not going to cause the NPC playerbase and the server as a whole problems. This rule, as I have discovered, is very smoky and subjective. After being repeatedly called several words that I shan't repeat by people I respect I was told that I wouldn't have to change the way I operate. This is confusing, and frankly I'm worried about how it's going to affect things in the future.

No matter how you field it, Player Factions are being stripped of their power. We have explicitly been told that we can no longer limit entry into systems that we paid for to be created (And if anybody tries to feed me BS about enriching the mod over the faction they should remind themselves who paid for the system). What can and can't be done has just been thrown into even more doubt than before.

Seems to me that factions are becoming more and more like glorified get-togethers.

YES, PINKY!

This is like the Government allowing civilians access to Area 51 to go site seeing.

Finally, somebody who agrees with me:D

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Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.

[Niezck]

OK, so you say factions are just there for more intense role-playing?

Then why make us pay 500 million to get considered, then have to wait however long, change ourselves to suit the community, pay a further one billion for a system, then X amount for it to be modded? If all that's going to achieve is a pat on the back and a "well done", what's the point? Why not scrap all factions now and have unofficial groups? You have the same intense RP by playing together, you just don't have to go through all the rubbish of becoming official.

[Drake]

Yea, but now there is no reason to because any Joe Schmo can come and go as he or she pleases and the faction just wasted all the effort into buying the system with no power to enforce control over the system that they 'own'

Any Joe Schmo with the proper factional tag and ID, along with a friendly Guard rep which can no longer be gained through the use of multi-bribing.

[Niezck]

Any Joe Schmo with the proper factional tag and ID, along with a friendly Guard rep which can no longer be gained through the use of multi-bribing.

So what? You think that doing a few missions is going to put off a potential PvP whore who's already traded enough for the ship in the first place?

[Dusty Lens]

Indeed Drake, I can't imagine the point of inputting a guard system for the purposes of maintaining some manner of lolwut powerbase in an internet spaceship game as opposed to working to enrich the local environment with something unique.

Or maybe that's the mindset that we had when we were working on Tau-45 (To be added in 5.39, when we get it fixed.) and I don't fully grok the mindset associated with wanting to keep such things for private use. If you're looking to buy the system to "own" it I suggest keeping your credits in your pocket, it's just going to cause heartache down the road.

Player factions get the message dump, they get the recruitment thread and they represent a broader opportunity to guide the faction through example. Shooting people down for not obeying your law of the land seems anethema to what I perceive the purpose of official factions to be.

Player factions -are- get togethers. They provide you with a chance to carry on with a group of mates doing what it is that you want to do. That may just be one man's position, but it's always worked for me. I've had a blast enjoying that playstyle and I've never had to "guide" anyone else beyond inviting them to fly with me and setting on a suggestive word or two. If they were prats, we ignored them and carried on.

Finally, Freelancer isn't falling off of the shelves anymore. Keep pushing people away and it'll be really easy to keep that guard system to yourself.

[SilentAssassin82]

The system is somthing designed to your factions specs. Not only that its somthing your faction has contributed to Discovery. What can be more rewarding than that? It also can be specified as YOUR home system. Not just an Outcast system or what ever. It would be bad Roleplay in my eyes to deny any fellow NPC faction member rights to enter. Unless they are OORP. And if this is the case then all you can do is give them your best advice and hope they change thiere ways. Or it will result in them getting themselfs sanctioned. And then none of it will matter anyway.

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[Niezck]

Personally, I'm not for the whole "You can't do this, you can do that, but only with my permission." rubbish. However, when you start removing any authority that factions have, what's the point? Wow, you get a message dump. Unofficial factions get message dumps. Just not in a particular forum with "message dumps" written on it. Unofficial factions get recruitment threads, just not in a particular forum with "recruitment" written on it. See my point? Why be official if you're paying to have a thread or two moved?

[Zero755]

Any Joe Schmo with the proper factional tag and ID, along with a friendly Guard rep which can no longer be gained through the use of multi-bribing.

Ok point taken, so the person in question has to do a few more missions, not really a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

My point was that the player faction no longer has control over a system that they could have easily invested over a billion credits in. What the hell is the point? Can we mod in a little flag on top of Corsica that says "property of 101st"

Without the factions being able to do anything you might as well just be a "loosely affiliated group" you'll have more rights then the people that do all work to become "official'

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[SilentAssassin82]

By the time most factions ive ever been involved in has had the credits to buy thiere own system. Aswell as been a member of the comunity long enough. Whats 500 million. Its pocket change. What would you do with it anyway. And how hard would it be to make it back. These things also help keep the facions trading. Its all part of the experiance.

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