' Wrote:As far as I personally am concerned, factions have no jurisdiction to attack, hamper or otherwise penalise any player going into any guard system if the said player has the correct ID *and* tag. If they have the ID but not the tag, feel free to blow them away. Of course if they have an Outcast ID and Outcast tag, for example, and they are also flying a ship manufactured by the Corsairs, feel free to also blow them away (since there is no excuse for not having previously bought a neutral or Outcast fighter etc before going into the Outcast guard system. They're not all stored only in guard systems). Its not difficult to work out when its ok and when it isn't.
' Wrote:drake, one example, maybe bad, but first that i have on mind.
situation with bounty hunters. noone control them, noone restrict them in what ship they can fly or so. and how much cap whores you have ? majority. not all but majority.. and now for example how much outcast dreads. or corsair dreads, or kusari bs, or bretonia bs, or all other capital ships, that have factions tryint to control indies in purchasing and using battleships have you seen flying trough system in their zoi and shooting to everythign ed? i am not saying that you can not see someone, but i am 100 percent sure, that now, when factions try to organize this , it is less ships as in past.( who remember rheinland battleships attacking gamma or corsair osirises in new berlin know about what i am talking... )
BHG caps are spammed because they can go just about anywhere and kill just about any unlawful (or they could, now they have to wait to be attacked or have a bounty). Bretonia, for example, hasn't restricted indie BAF capships at all, as far as I know (though they have a registry, it's entirely voluntary), and they've had very few problems with people abusing the freedom. If someone abuses a capship (such as shooting anything red), then they can be sanctioned. If they can't be sanctioned, then they're probably not abusing their capship.
' Wrote:I can't recall ever seeing the LN invade O-Minor...
no, its all the indies with names like "lolpwncruiser" flying with LN/LSF tags and ID's.
It's kinda the same issue when some random order indy, who was most likely a butthurt corsair before, decides to take his shiny new osiris into new york, and then -I- get:
[LN] or =LSF= Player: "Why are you order attacking us again? Get your capwhores out of new york! Quit pvpwhoring us!"
and I'm like "uh, wtf is he talking about?" because i have no fricken clue whats going on, because that guy who's invading new york probably has some stupid name like "XxXlibertykillerSephirothXxX", has not likely posted his name or ship in the order pilot/officer roster, and was not told to go into new york by any of us other order players.
Such is the curse of having an easily recognized name among the order, I suppose -_-
' Wrote:so when i understand it right, then i can buy rheinland battleship, park it in fron of NB planet and noone from RM has no right to say me nothing, they have no right to move me, shoot me or something. right? the same for corsairs, outcast, and all others. so indies can make evrything that is in lines with game rules. when they dont broke rule, noone cna force them not to be cap pvp whore... good. on the other side, what is reason for factions now when they have no right to make something ? they have no right to tell others something or make something... only what they can is sit still down and hope that someone in big uber battleship fresh purchased on their home planet will not destroy their roleplay.... i think this is step back....
this is based as roleplay server. and in roleplay who has bigger right or bigger autority? organisation or single human ???? because this rule make them the same... now all can freee park their bsin front of mannhatan and shoot to pirates in lf ....
Short answer: YES.
The longer answer:
Lately (for about a month or two) Rheinland has seen an increase in military caps. All indies I might add. And I've seen them from the Hessian characters point of view.
After a couple of bumps in the road and getting to know each other and Rheinland's specific RP I have to say they are a welcome addition.
I have to give to Cam's RNC_Aachen a nod here. The first times you had encounters with RHA were a bit rough and you were searching your place in the Rheinland but lately you have improved your act a lot. You have found your place in Rheinland.
And so are slowly the other caps (cruisers mostly) are being integrated into Rheinland. I can't say anything from RM's behalf, but I believe they have similar experiences and feelings. Things are a lot smoother now than they were. And I've read about RM giving orders indies too. Some "orders" have been followed and some have been not. But I don't think it's an issue anymore.
The point is that
1) Indies have noticed that it's much more fun to play together as a team with a faction.
2) Well established factions give indies a safe guidance to learn the ropes of RPing the said Military, Hessian etc.
3) Multiplayer is fun doing your own thing, but even more enjoyable doing the group thing.
And what this means to the topic.
The biggest problem is that within Order there has been 2 sides of equal strength: Bs| and Indies. If the other side would have been weaker we would not be in this situation. And lack of perspective and common sense from both parties which has led to this row between them (eventually leading to this Admin notice).
All started when Bs| tried to force the NY no-go on some indies who were going to NY to raid (aka start **** up) in caps.
A) Bs| could have acted better by just saying that "I'd advice you not to go. It will end up only in flames when people start whining." -> Bs| could have washed their hands off of the whole thing and retained the moral high ground in the ensuing whine-fest. Which I firmly believe would have driven the said raiding indies back to Bs| lap or to Toledo.
But, alas, they decided to force the issue. While I agree they might have been in perfectly good RP to do so it certainly was not the right thing to do.
B) Indies could have used common sense. "Spontaneous" Cap raiding, if anything, in Disco is an anathema and will get people to the barricades very fast. Why not wait a bit and have an event? Like the OPG did. They just announced that they are going to raid the bases of all their enemies and gave a fair and square chance for their enemies to come out and meet them like men. Most, like RHA, didn't :P And when there were not enemies present they did not linger too long "owning" the system. An event like raiding can be simple and done right.
So, I suggest you an addition to the Admin notice. Order caps are allowed into NY space in case of an event.
While I agree that no faction should be given absolute control over indies I strongly advocate strong factions. Factions should set an example for indies to follow. If a faction's RP is top-notch there will not be any problems with indies following suit. Factions can't push the RP to indies, but they can pull the indies after them.
One more notion about the RP. The server evolves faction's RP and faction's RP evolves Disco. No plan for a new Order faction or RP will stay on course when the realities of the server meet the plan. So don't make highly specialized faction plans but rather evolve them over time. And that is the reason why I think Harvesters will have a very hard time making it in the server. No NPCs and no FL lore to back them up. It's the lore and "history" that keeps the factions alive. And that's why RM has been so succesful over the years in keeping it's place among the faction regardless of spouts of in-activity. The RM's RP has been (and is) very good and that's what lures people in and makes the faction so strong that there has been no serious contenders. Their RP is tried and true and works in the server too.
And generally I don't think people confuse a faction RP and indie RP. I mean I know I can wait something of higher standard action from [+] player than from a [Skull] (apparently the latest addition to Titan fleet). So indies or other un-official factions do not destroy your RP globalo. Simply because they can't.
A strong faction RP is the best possible advertisement in server. You keep doing good RP long enough and you'll see people joining up and paying attention to what you say as a member of the faction. Let the others make fools of themselves by OORPing and not using fair play and common sense. The Disco, as community, will slap the wrists for you on those people sooner or later. And if you have given advice to the indies in good spirit that they will end up in trouble you really have the moral high ground when it happens.
The main point is be an example for others to follow.
ok, fresh situation, yesterday. noticed someone that corsair fleet in bretonia? can someone give me really good explanation what can be rp reason for CORSAIR DREADNOUGHT to be in bretonia ??? and no, he can not be sanctioned, since corsairs are in bretonia, but not with cap ships. or maybe they were without cap ships...
and noone from us can not say to that indie, no, dont go there, we can not loose so big ships...
' Wrote:ok, fresh situation, yesterday. noticed someone that corsair fleet in bretonia? can someone give me really good explanation what can be rp reason for CORSAIR DREADNOUGHT to be in bretonia ??? and no, he can not be sanctioned, since corsairs are in bretonia, but not with cap ships. or maybe they were without cap ships...
and noone from us can not say to that indie, no, dont go there, we can not loose so big ships...
Keep your cool globalo. Read the post I made above yours.
Well, i had planned on making a Liberty cruiser and only using it as a large research vessel. but i figured that i would be pummeled by "sell your ship, you're not registered" crap, so i never bought it.
' Wrote:ok, fresh situation, yesterday. noticed someone that corsair fleet in bretonia? can someone give me really good explanation what can be rp reason for CORSAIR DREADNOUGHT to be in bretonia ??? and no, he can not be sanctioned, since corsairs are in bretonia, but not with cap ships. or maybe they were without cap ships...
and noone from us can not say to that indie, no, dont go there, we can not loose so big ships...
This will be handled by the new 4.85 IDs which severely restrict Guard ZoI (and Guard ID's are generally required for large caps).
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