I will say that I believe the Unioners see more eye-to-eye with the SCRA than do the Hessians, but both SCRA and Hessians are fighting against Corsairs and Rheinland.
There have been several dustups, in RP, between the two groups, mostly involving the pirating/shooting of civilians. A couple times I can remember, the SCRA have left a combined flotilla and threatened action against RHA for pirating civvies while we were around. We don't take kindly to that.
But in all alliances, there are going to be times where ideologies don't 100% mesh. It happens.
SCRA COULD be a turning point, depending on which side we help. It also could be a balancing point in a three-sided war as well, where we target the Libs first in a battle, then turn and attack RM forces when the battle is won. now THAT would make for interesting RP in the next battle.
"CorvettenKapitan, SCRA ships on scanners".
"I see them. Who should we turn and fight? The Libs or the SCRA?"
Libs"Sir, SCRA engaging RM, what should we do?"
"They took out our boys last time...watch them first".
And who knows what those crazy communists have up their sleeves really. Perhaps we could secretly back the Molly Revolution? trying to instill that government in Bretonia by destroying the BAF fleets before they can get to Leeds?
Or we're backing Blood Dragons against the Kusari government, only to install our own leader instead of theirs?
Or Liberty's president will finally fall to ... wait, Liberty doesn't have an oppressed worker's faction do they?
Or maybe we're just out to kill Junkers and Toasters?
' Wrote:Guys!
Please don't bring WW2 thingy up!
This is Freelancer! Most of people don't remember they are from Solar system! And yet again, socialism developed into commie and fasictic thingy... So there is no point in arguing about that one.... :(
Sorry but just no, people still argue about two thousand year ole conflicts and the devestation caused by WW2 is unprecedented in history. It is completly unrealistic for these two ideoligies to marry after past events. There was a reason the red army raped and pillaged ther way to Berlin and it was revenge, after what they had suffered at the hands of Nazi's I cant find it in my heart to blame them either.
I agree with Spear here. People still talk about the Crusades too, even if it was just in history class. Greek and Roman wars? Same thing. Millenia-old hatreds and suspicions still fuel some of the conflicts today.
That being said, Communist v Fascist is just a hair higher than Communist v Capitalist. That's not saying that SCRA would side with Libs instead, but would probably take this opportunity to strike blows at BOTH sides of the conflict along with the Rheinland allies.
' Wrote:Since this thread has been posted, and I really don't give a damn about what happens on Discovery anymore, I think that it's about time that I speak my mind about the SCRA.
I am completely against the fact that the SCRA should aid the Hessians.
Currently, it's a marriage of convenience. I do not even think that its a marriage of ideology. Yes, they might represent the groups of workers that were oppressed by the rich for profit, but the fact of the matter is, they are of the Alliance.
Personally, I've no clue how we became allied with the Hessians in the first place. Forgive me for sinking your RP ship, but these guys are Germanic. In the war many years ago, it was not just a war of ideology, but a war of clashing nationalisms.
Sorry, but I do not see this working whatsoever.
Note that the SCRA has a large number of Rheinlanders recruited into their ranks.
They recruit revolutionaries from similarly minded peoples throughout the sector. Rheinland has the most people that can be shifted to their train of thought.
Also note that if we are basing this off of the Cold War era, this makes perfect sense, as a certain country was split in two over such ideology. East Germany was amongst the most oppressed states on that side of the Iron Curtain, and the most under the thumb of the USSR, being one of the few nations that were quick to support the USSR's invasion of Afghanistan, something other Eastern Bloc nations were very reluctant to do.
However, yes, in Starlancer, the Germans are Alliance. That is true. But the Coalition want to conquer Sirius, or install puppet governments et cetera, et cetera. Full occupation is not feasible due to estimated populations. They need the support of local groups.
Now, if we go onto the World War 2 analogy again, the USSR expanded, conscripting local forces as they advanced. Very horrific stuff. It wasn't all Russians, but people from occupied nations. Nazi Germany did the same (Actually, it wasn't just conscription, both sides also had volunteers too. Large amounts of Ukrainians, for instance, joined the SS).
However, please note that the USSR and Nazi Germany did have a non-aggression pact before World war 2, in spite of the ideologies.
Now, I would probably say that the SCRA would continue their usual opportunistic attacks. They're good at mobile warfare (see: Mao et al's Long March, but with less casualties).
I imagine they would focus attack on whoever was winning, in an attempt to make the war last longer, and running and hiding when they became too involved. A long war would weaken both sides, hopefully, allowing for more expansion in the Omegas.
@Blunt: Are you suggesting that the political division in Germany was the Germans peoples idea? I just cannot buy into a communist faction taking either side in a facist versus captalist conflict, facist is an inbred communist hatred while captalism is an idelogical one. The SCRA has no place in either side IMHO.
That's kind of what Adrian said...we'd play both sides against the other. If the Libs started gaining the upper hand, blow up some dreadnaughts. If RM started winning, caboom some cruisers...fight with the underdog side, all the while propaganda-ing both sides about a war fought without the populace's wills in mind, but by uncaring governments.
And no, Germany was split by US and USSR as spoils of war when the Allies re-drew europe.
It would be really interesting roleplay if real player characters from both Liberty and Rheinland started deserting to us and then create a semi-group tag which supports the Coalition.
' Wrote:It would be really interesting roleplay if real player characters from both Liberty and Rheinland started deserting to us and then create a semi-group tag which supports the Coalition.
Edit: Wrong verb, changed.
Has happened, at least with Rheinlanders.
Libertonians has happened too, although not from the Navy.
-Admiral Kirk - Born in Rheinland
-Captain Totenkopt - Born in Rheinland
-Commander Eugen Weise - Born in Rheinland
-Captain Jan Richtofen - Born in Rheinland, former RM
-Captain Yuri Striatov - Born in Liberty, former Bounty Hunter
-Commander Zarevho Kaputski - Born in Liberty
-Commander Alexi Karchov - born in Liberty, former DSE miner
-Lieutenant Commander Mireille Ceyes - Born in Liberty, former Navy officer
-Lieutenant Rand Y'Bashtad - Born in Liberty, former Xeno
First of all: The SCRA will NOT fly along side any capitalist/fascist/lawful forces. not happening, period.
Now to the actual post content;)
Both the Hessians and the SCRA share a Goal. This goal is obviously to change the current order of things in Rheinland. While the Hessians only seek to overthrow the government of Rheinland, the SCRA wouldn't only like overthrow that but any government in their favor AND change the system of economy.
But the problem both factions are fighting with is the superiority of their enemies in regards of power and technology.
The war between Rheinland and Liberty will be a chance for the SCRA to help those forces to grind each other down until the very end.
The approach of the argument "SCRA fights Capitalism. NO, SCRA fights fascism more!" is, sadly, void. Both are enemies and both need to be destroyed/taken over sooner or later to get in power of the houses.
Even though the vulture theory is sort of right in a way, this war is too much of an opportunity to have one house getting away with a victory.
So what they will do is the fallowing: They will hit&run any side that takes the upper hand in this conflict, without coordinating them selfs in any way with one of the house' militaries. Since liberty is the greater military power, the SCRA and the RHA will hit their forces in the Borderworlds and Texas first. As soon as Rheinland advances in the Borderworlds, they will hit Rheinland's military installation (note: NOT war-industry) at home since its around the corner anyway.
They will continue this strategy until both navies have nothing left but to bite each other with their plain gums. And as soon this war is over, they will overthrow the gov in rheiland first (aided by VF which is quite an awesome faction, by the way. SIGN UP TODAY AND GET YOUR FREE LOKI!), squeeze every last bit of resources and work out of it (ironically exploiting the working class even more), create a military force and move on like grasshoppers to any other house of their choice. By then, every single one of them should be beaten to the ground already due to all the wars going right now.
And that's how <strike>we</strike> they will do it. :secret:
The RHA is what you could call the embodiment of my viewpoint of the Hessians. The leaders are well spoken, idealistic and follow a strict goal of forcing the current Rheinland government to disband once again, and pushing things on from there, as well as halting the Corsairs in the Omega systems. They view the Hessian movement as a revolution in on itself. The lowly Hessians though use any means necessary to accomplish these goals when left alone (and HT RP is meant to take this up a notch as well), including indiscriminate piracy and attacks on armed craft in Rheinland and surrounding border worlds. There are no repercussions against these incidents, as the leadership takes to the idea that "the criminals will be prosecuted after we win". This is why SCRA with their superior discipline is perfectly in RP to tell off Hessians about their piracy habits. Consider the Hessians in this respect as the "german partisans" fighting against their government. I'd say it is more than in RP for the SCRA (who obviously are not as manned as they would like to be) to support them.
On the Liberty - Rheinland war:
Considering that Liberty has Rheinland outnumbered at least 2 (maybe even 3) to 1 here, Rheinland is obviously looking at getting steamrolled. Now there are a few reasons why the Hessian leadership would not want that to happen:
- First of all, the Liberty fleet is powerful. Powerful enough to take Rheinland sooner or later, just like Kusari is doing with Bretonia. If the LN take New Berlin, they might just want to try their hand at holding Dresden, considering the Hessians won't want a Liberty controlled government there either. If the RM is taken out, there won't be much other lawful resistance in Rheinland, so the unlawfuls will be the only ones left targetting the Libertonians. If Liberty decided to bring a big portion of their fleet to Dresden, Hessians would find themselves needing to take forces away from the Omega front to battle the enemy on their own turf. Corsairs would get some breathing space in Omegas and from there it's a downward spiral. The Hessians would be interested in stopping the Liberty offensive before it threatens them.
- If the Liberty fleet is stopped by the Military, the government will be significantly weakened by the war, and it will open a window of opportunity for the Hessians to try their luck at restarting the Popular Revolution by increasing their attacks.
I'd say it benefits the Hessians to fight Liberty rather than Rheinland. This will mean there will be a inside order from RHA high command to avoid attacking RM forces for the duration of the war. Of course whether this order will be completely followed by the soldiers is another thing altogether...:P
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