ID-locking IFFs and undercover systems

[Lythrilux]

There was a time when it was in the rules that IDs were ooRP and IFF was inRP and it was great. Can't remember why it was reverted, think it was related to some issues with generic IDs. It should be brought back.

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[Big Bison Bessie]

This does create a peculiar situation when it comes to how does one deal with bounty targets... since bounties are typically done on a per ID basis, in fact you can check anyone's ID with /bs at any range. Granted I understand the RP behind everything and I am willing to give people the benefit of the doubt with what they're up to, but it gets peculiar when you get for instance, say, an IMG IFF Technocracy ship. Under what situations does a bounty hunter (don't assume I mean BHG) open fire on that, what if they're hunting bounties for BMM targeting IMG ships, or Core bounties targeting Technocracy ships, which succeeds which? Or if a Bowex ship puts a bounty on a group of ships that was bothering it for Bret lawfuls to collect, while one of those ships was actually a BIS ship with a different ID? Would someone get in trouble if say a BAF ship shoots the BIS agent for having a pirate IFF rule wise because they're allied on paper as per ID? Can someone issue or collect a bounty solely on IFF or does the ID still need to be acknowledged?

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[StellarViss]

The issue with IDs being completely invisible inRP is that - if there are no other gameplay mechanics available to uncover them - an undercover character can't be uncovered unless they go out of their way to expose themselves. If I fly an Order ID, Freelancer IFF Sabre with no Order tech equipped, no one can ever know that I am an undercover Order agent unless I deliberately slip up. Until then I can happily spy on others and report back on forum message dumps with absolutely no counterplay whatsoever.

Unless my coffee deprived brain has missed something important, of course.

All in all, I'm for this change. There just needs to be some way to expose undercover characters.

Yes it is would be a good thing that no one can just figure out that your freelancer iff order id Sabre isn't a order agent. What is stopping a person that has a freelancer ID to do the same thing?

Ideally both side should be involved out of roleplay and make a deal as this is a rp server not a pixel power one.

Considering that in your example a freelancer was a spy there is a limit to the information that they can send. A House navy officer shouldn't divulge secrets to a random freelancer and if the freelancer is being too noisy there are espionage laws and for unlawfuls they have piracy demands (Demand they go away from you or leave the system or just straight up attack them) of course you can always ignore them.

Again there are limits what that spy can do unless they are in your faction (as a member of your group) but that is another matter.

[Lythrilux]

This does create a peculiar situation when it comes to how does one deal with bounty targets... since bounties are typically done on a per ID basis, in fact you can check anyone's ID with /bs at any range. Granted I understand the RP behind everything and I am willing to give people the benefit of the doubt with what they're up to, but it gets peculiar when you get for instance, say, an IMG IFF Technocracy ship. Under what situations does a bounty hunter (don't assume I mean BHG) open fire on that, what if they're hunting bounties for BMM targeting IMG ships, or Core bounties targeting Technocracy ships, which succeeds which? Or if a Bowex ship puts a bounty on a group of ships that was bothering it for Bret lawfuls to collect, while one of those ships was actually a BIS ship with a different ID? Would someone get in trouble if say a BAF ship shoots the BIS agent for having a pirate IFF rule wise because they're allied on paper as per ID? Can someone issue or collect a bounty solely on IFF or does the ID still need to be acknowledged?

Ah yes, this is also why the change was reverted. Honestly, just make it so that BHG ID can see IDs inRP.

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[Kauket]

I don't think a scanner is the way to go. I can't realistically envision a way in which it can't be abused to relentlessly bust down undercover RP some player has probably spent a good while developing. If all of that RP goes down the drain just because some guy you never met has a "spy detector", then it defeats the entire purpose of even attempting to RP with anyone else other than a small group of people you know won't resort to petty tactics.

A good player who does undercover RP will cover their tracks and be careful. That should be rewarded with continued incognito status. A player who gets sloppy and starts handing out obvious hints about their allegiances should pay the price for it - they get exposed for what or who they are. An ingame item that throws interaction out the window is definitely not a good idea.

This.

It's the traditional good ol' human senses and vibe checking. You ask people around. You verify people's backgrounds, get testimonies. Vet their backgrounds. Put them to the test. Don't tell people everything you ever know. Trust has to be earned. You control the flow of info and situation, you CAN tell allies to shove off and respect your privacy.

Also people would just metagame the shit out of IDs even if they're "not there inrp"

Honestly, just make it so that BHG ID can see IDs inRP.

lmao, lol even

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[StellarViss]

This does create a peculiar situation when it comes to how does one deal with bounty targets... since bounties are typically done on a per ID basis, in fact you can check anyone's ID with /bs at any range. Granted I understand the RP behind everything and I am willing to give people the benefit of the doubt with what they're up to, but it gets peculiar when you get for instance, say, an IMG IFF Technocracy ship. Under what situations does a bounty hunter (don't assume I mean BHG) open fire on that, what if they're hunting bounties for BMM targeting IMG ships, or Core bounties targeting Technocracy ships, which succeeds which? Or if a Bowex ship puts a bounty on a group of ships that was bothering it for Bret lawfuls to collect, while one of those ships was actually a BIS ship with a different ID? Would someone get in trouble if say a BAF ship shoots the BIS agent for having a pirate IFF rule wise because they're allied on paper as per ID? Can someone issue or collect a bounty solely on IFF or does the ID still need to be acknowledged?

As far as I know lawful and qwasi-lawfuls ID's can't be targets for the BHG bounties but it is a good question does IFF superseded the ID. As for the BAF BIS pirate situation the BIS player can blow his cover to the BAF to avoid being attack but that would have consequences. In a instance where the agent doesn't blow it it should be a legitimate kill.

[jammi]

As for the BAF BIS pirate situation the BIS player can blow his cover to the BAF to avoid being attack but that would have consequences. In a instance where the agent doesn't blow it it should be a legitimate kill.

Easy enough to prove as well. "Escort me to the Battleship Norfolk, and I'll prove my credentials." Dock/undock, a real pirate would get lit up. Then /droprep to reinstate the BIS IFF, and /pirate to put the old one back.

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[Lythrilux]

Honestly, just make it so that BHG ID can see IDs inRP.

lmao, lol even

Consider it access to a criminal database.

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[StellarViss]

As for the BAF BIS pirate situation the BIS player can blow his cover to the BAF to avoid being attack but that would have consequences. In a instance where the agent doesn't blow it it should be a legitimate kill.

Easy enough to prove as well. "Escort me to the Battleship Norfolk, and I'll prove my credentials." Dock/undock, a real pirate would get lit up. Then /droprep to reinstate the BIS IFF, and /pirate to put the old one back.

This is it. Excellent example. Keeps the ID out of rp.

[StellarViss]

Honestly, just make it so that BHG ID can see IDs inRP.

lmao, lol even

Consider it access to a criminal database.

Would this make the BHG the ultimate anti-espionage ID?

On the side note Gallic Wild should have Royalists as a option same with the GNI.