Faction Alliances and Relations Revision

[Friday]

WIth the auto-updater now in effect - small steps could be made.

It would allow for gradual change that wont upset the apple cart too much, and should allow for devs to implement changes at their own pace.

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[looqas]

I think, it is almost impossible to change NPC alliances. It would be huge work: NPC spawns, NPC in bases, bribes, reputation system, infocards, rumors.
This polarized system - outcasts/corsairs, will be probably forever. Some small adjustment could be done.
Alliances between players factions can be done freely, of course as far as it has sense according to NPC relations.

I don't mind the NPC spawns or relations at this point. The discussion at this point seems to be what alliances should be changed to neutral and what up-graded to friendly. No one is asking for putting anyone to hostile here, yet (expect the Order - OC, which might be the stuff of 4.86).

NPCs in bases are not flawless to my knowledge. You can find very, very surprising people sitting at the tables. About infocards; in some cases they require a bigger amount of work, but in others not so big, like the Hessian - OC. Many of the relations described in infocards (like We get supplied from base x or such) do not need for those factions to be friendly.

Mostly I think people want to see rep affecting alliances been looked closer. Changing how reputations interact (lose/gain status), be that done via bribe or shooting NPCs, would not be a huge job at this point. Reputation modifiers can be altered easily. Seeing how they affect the whole Sirius is harder. As of now keeping rep sheet with certain factions can be quite a chore and that's mostly because of quite complicated reputation chains.

The important thing is that we are discussing about it and voicing our opinions what makes sense and what does not in terms of relations.

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Flying under radar.

[farmerman]

I think, it is almost impossible to change NPC alliances. It would be huge work: NPC spawns, NPC in bases, bribes, reputation system, infocards, rumors.
This polarized system - outcasts/corsairs, will be probably forever. Some small adjustment could be done.
Alliances between players factions can be done freely, of course as far as it has sense according to NPC relations.

Considering how many base npcs need updated anyway and how many screwy bribes there are, I don't think that's an issue. In fact, it could help get that updated, and then everything would improve.

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Faction info links: Samura Heavy Industries : LWB : Watchers

[Benjamin]

Yeah you can get an Outcast bribe on Islay Base, and there are Kishiro and Samura NPCs on New London. I am much happier with these things than some of the alliances.

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Join Cryer Pharmaceuticals

[Ceoran]

Exactly what i meant, but neutrality will turn to hostility in no time if Order ever will be aware of this worshipping and spy's or people willing to trade informations for their benefits are everywhere.;)

AoM

Go down to Gamma as an outcast and you can be sure to be outnumbered by order ships for the reason of being allied with the nomads...

Anyway, the hessian-outcast alliance makes sense, even in 4.85 and I'm sure also in some more versions. Because actually it's called "anti-corsair alliance", including not only the hessians but also all the other factions that don't really like the corsairs expansive tendencies. Most of them aren't really close enough to be allied in the way of exchanging technologies but fighting the common enemy together. Besides that's the only thing hessians and outcasts are really doing together (which means all hessian ships in alpha except that one defector are b***s***).
And yet noone mentioned the -in my opinion- most important reason for the hessians to join that alliance: the outcasts agreed not to spread cardamine in Rheinland (finally shouldn't make any profit any more from what I heared). Of course that alliance would end right at the time the corsairs would be defeated of heavily weakened, but won't as long as they breed like rabbits.

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My Stories Outcast laws and structures Join Samura|-

Go play the game, within the given limitations. That is how role play games are played. Not by trying to work around those limitations or whining about them.

[Wolfspirit]

After I mapped Rheinland rumors the next image in my mind:
After 2 years the end of "Eighty" happened the population revolt. Started by daumann employee in Dresden and soon joined to him a group of Berlin University student the bundush, the Alster Shipyard workers and a lot of other people of course. They moved away the emperor and took over the goverment, and they ruled Rheinland! Because they cant do nothing but growing the slump, and because was a lot weak and corrupted in their line who bought the rheinland and liberty corporations, the radical elements slowly to be crowded out from the goverment, or they left them by himself when they saw, nothing really changed. They was the hessians, unioners and bundush. All social law, what made in the start of new goverment, slowly gone. So these have common goals, a pure goverment without corruption and a kind of socialist state, where the labour conditions are good, no overwork etc.

The radicalists has different, personal goals too of course. Unioners want to restore the old contract with the leaders of Republican Shipping, what made in the start of population revolt. And if they dont do it, need to force the directory with guns. Almost same goals has to hessians with Daumann too.

So yes these are close with SCRA ideas, all these have political goals. LWB a later story, they dont really care the politic only their home, Stuttgart. Rheinlander lawfuls dont really hate them, secretly they agree what are they do (police, daumann etc.) against Synth Foods.

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Why good trading with Barge? For this:

[Eternal]

If alliances where forged , simply because there is a common enemy , then many faction wouldn't exist at the moment. Although the Hessians are fighting against the Corsairs in the Omegas , that fight has little to do with the Outcasts , who meet the Corsairs in the Omicrons. Outcasts , do indeed supply Rheinland with cardamine which , of course , is something that all unlawful parties in Rheinland don't agree with , not really sure about the Unioners , and for that reason attack and destroy Cardamine traders who pass thrue Rheinland , same can be said about slavery.

Outcasts aren't exactly given a warm welcome in Rheinland , at least I have never seen that.

Red Hessians are strong enough and have enough allies to hold the Corsairs , last time I asked about the lore I was told that the Hessians are "winning" the battle so far , and don't need allies , such as the Outcasts at the price of cardamine flowing freely in Rheinland.

Zapp : The Order is perhaps the only , large factions who fights it's enemies with intelligence gathering. It is our buisnes to know what is going on and where , especially when it comes to the Nomads. The Order is fully aware of the .. special treatment , Nomads receive by the Outcasts and we also know what exactly does cardamine do to the human body. Us being hostile to the Outcasts is pretty natural really.

Bundschuh should indeed be allied to the Red Hessians and the LWB , but not the Unioners. We are disguised by their cruel methods. They aren't revolutionaries , they really can't care less about a revolution , all they want to do is make Republicans regret the day they where born , fighing the RM / RFP is a side affect from their true goal. In the eyes of the Bundschuh , Unioners are useful for now , because they help fight a common enemy and help shatter the iconomy of fascist Rheinland. But once / if the Bundschuh get people high up in the government , we may change our view over the Unioners.

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[El Caminante]

If i got it right, SCRA goals are similar to Corsair. To expand, to overrule and to subpress and not to share any power. The workers in Rheinland would be nothing else than useful cannonfodder. The mind turned by lying propaganda. SCRA want to establish their own empire and not to bring social justice.
Always take a closer look on parties you want to ally yourself with.

Well, centerpart of the Anti-Corsair-Alliance are Junker. They have brought all allies together and the alliance was negotiated on Junker base, but the scrap salvagers themself never signed it and still trade with Corsairs.
Such an alliance i would not claim stable and with the dscovery of the gallic house, cards might be mixed new all around Sirius.

El Caminante

[tyro]

Ok. if you think it could be done, that is my 1cent.

For Outcasts the alliances are not only anti-corsairs matter. It is cardi business mostly. They need Junkers, Rogues and even GC for cardi distribution, nothing more. Outcasts want to addict as more as possible amount of people. They made alliances, they share technology, they use anti-corsairs rhetoric, but their real goal is cardi distribution.
From the other side, small poor groups of criminal elements, need big and powerful protector. That is symbiotic alliance.

As for Rheinland's groups, they are not cardi addicted, so Outcasts failed their main goal and only the common enemy remained. Rheinland groups fight with Corsairs on the far and different areas than Outcast, they don't like cardi, they have own technology, so they don't need Outcasts. They should be neutral.

In the case of Mollys, I think they should remain friendly with Outcasts, because of they have more than one common enemy: Corsairs, Baf, Knf, and they both operate in Bretonia, and because of Rogues.

As for Order, their main goal is to protect Liberty people, and not only from Nomads threat. The cardi is also danger for Liberty people. The Order cannot like Outcasts and their cardi.

[jammi]

The aim of the Order is to protect all of the Houses (not just Liberty), or simpily humanity as a whole. And the Order would more than likely be annoyed at the Outcasts because they're bed-mates with the Nomads, rather than the fact that they distribute Cardi.

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