You're kidding, right? Cause I am nigh insulted! Especially after me and a DHC challenged each other as to who's organisation is the evil one. It's Daumann of course, shame I had to leave that one early for an event.
I'm going to pitch in and mention how hard the various leaders of Rheinland work to ensure that Rheinland is not a pvp-fest. We regularly work with our opposite numbers ingame to fight off foreign invaders, and if we don't have any particular reason to fight we usually don't...
Liberty is where PvP happens almost always. We do a -lot- of work to keep Rheinland from getting that reputation. If anyone in Rheinland is exhibiting a "PvP is the only option" attitude, then let any Rheinland leader know and we'll arrange a nice chat with them. Please let us know if that was just a mistype or if there's someone or a group of someones you're concerned about- we take just things quite seriously, and don't want to ruin the fun of anyone while they're in Rheinland.
EDIT: Upon reviewing Sprolf's post, I believe it was his intention to say that you'll get PvP no matter where you go and indicated Rheinland as the least likely place for it. Sorry for any confusion, but I'm serious about how we treat even the idea of Rheinland being PvP-crazy... anything you don't like, let us know, please. If you aren't having fun in Rheinland, we want to know, and we'll do what we can to fix it.
I'm also going to fall in with Swift here and say that contrary to popular belief, PvP is not, by nature, evil. Lol-I'm-a-God-lol is just as bad as ganking, and there are some fights that are just as wicked cool as the best of RP.
Personally, I like an RP situation that has the possible threat of PvP without a guarantee in either direction- it's why I smuggle rather than trade, for one; I have to talk for my safety, but I can theoretically get out of anything without a fight or end up in a fight from any encounter. PvP and RP are both fundamental parts of this server, and trying to tear one from the other is quite detrimental to all involved.
I believe Dieter used to use a yin-yang with "RP" on one side and "PvP" on the other side as his avatar... they are both important, and without the presence of one the other suffers. (Note that the presence of PvP is not necessarily the act of fighting- the realization that you could end up fighting is important. What happened to New York when PvP was turned off is a good illustration of this.)
Rules don't cause PVP ... PVP-centric-players cause PVP.
For the most part, people here wanna role play. To some, role play includes PVP ... and in some of these cases they consider PVP a required event when they encounter certain character types. Its all based on the individual (or group of individuals). I fly my pirate through Liberty now and again with relatively no troubles. The Liberty authorities know that I avoid pirating in house systems. They do maintain a watchful eye on me and monitor comms while I'm in the area. But for the most part, while my pirate is flying through Liberty he's delivering food, water and medicine to the poor (namely Rogue bases and such). So ... role play is intact. If I start causing trouble ... the bring out the pwn hammers.
If a pirate is dropping the lanes, to attack on traders and demanding them cargo and credits, I can't be so passive to him.
Probably, the first time I'm gonna tell him to leave, with a little chance to convince him to leave the piracy and become a good man.
The second time I see the same pirate doing the same thing, I won't be so nice, I won't tell him again to leave the piracy, I won't be so passive. Because, we already have a history.
From my point of view, the RP of my navy char isn't the same with pirates and traders. I can have long chats with traders trying to break the embargo, about the war with Rheinland. Or, I can have chats with Xenos about foreigners companies working in Liberty. I had chats with the Hellfire Legion about Liberty's government.
Of course, they are the less, most of my RP, is to intercept and stop pirates.
Today, happened that a Navy player said, after we destroyed a couple of pirate gunboats near West Point, "Where is the RP?"
Well, since these particular gunboats, and these particular group of pirates have been pirating at california and California-West Point lane, for the last 3 days, we had to do something about it. RP is not always about chating with the enemy.
Before to attack them, we had to organize the lawful side, between indies and factions, that's RP. Not just that, we got a couple of mercs, who I have to pay for their job, that's RP.
We organized how to attack, the targets, the leader of the squadron, etc. That's RP, the enemy was not involved in that particular part of the RP. But, I'm pretty sure, they were doing the same thing in their side. Or at least, that's what they did the last days.
"Where is the RP?" That particular encounter has last for 3 days, anyone in Liberty can tell that. 3 days of taunts, attacks, re-groups, more taunts, more attacks, trader in troubles, traders asking for help, traders paying, traders escaping, lawful dying, pirates dying. Pirates pirating in other places because the lawful side is busy with cali. Pirates threating pirates for misconduct.
It could seem that in that moment, we went there to PvP, but it was the result of 3 days of dealing with them, ingame and forum.
Chatting is not always the accured form of RP. Mobilizing troops, warning and deviating traders, searching, patroling, that's RP too.
At least from my navy char.
Perhaps, we have to improve the inside RP, before to improve the outside. It's common that in groups with people that you already know, the RP is not that estrict, that's what we need to change.
Then, you can expect better RP from other groups of players.
@ casero: True ... deviating from patrol routes and such is also RP. But I think what we're talking about is actual interaction with other players. If I'm on my pirate moving food, water and medicine to the poor at Rogue bases and such ... that's part of my role play ... even though I'm a pirate with a Pirate ID. While I'm moving food, water and medicine about I'm usually avoiding trade lanes and giving the authorities a wide berth to make sure I don't end up loosing my cargo. But when I actually encounter a member of the LPI, LSF, Liberty Navy, etc ... at that point the RP is vital to establish. And at this point you've gotta do the typing bit for RP. If I'm encountered in Liberty with food, water and medicine ... you can bet I have no intention of getting into a fight. So I'm gonna type like a madman to make sure the authorities don't open up on me. Now that's my piece of the puzzle ... the Liberty authority I encounter now has his RP piece ... is he gonna destroy my vessel simply because I've got a Pirate ID (which states I can trade btw) or is he gonna type something like "we're watching you pirate ... fly right and don't cause trouble and you'll survive the night." I'd hope you choose the latter.
Just think about it. From convoys greeting each other, to researchers and miners working to discover a new mineral, to the Bretonian Parliament turning into a battle royal.
Remember when New York became a no-PvP system? Remember what happened to NY then?
No one RP'ed in NY. Or rather, RP became very one-sided. Jumping to NY became quick fix out of a battle. Smugglers would just waltz about, poking fun at the lawfuls because they couldn't do anything about it. Unlawfuls did the same. There was no risk of death anymore. In a situation where a pirate could talk his way into escaping (or get blown up), the pirate no longer has to worry about staying out of the system for four hours. The level of lolwutters stayed the same (possibly increased), and the level of RP decreased.
In Freelancer, RP cannot exist without PvP. This doesn't mean that RP requires PvP, of course, but most of the time, it's necessary.
It's true than Liberty can be one giant PVP fest, that's not to say there are not good RP'ers there. They just get lost in all the voices, especially in New York.
The only thing I would like to say is spread out a little.
More often than not my LRs encounters with the Navy or Police end without PvP. But if I didn't run away, then you can't possibly expect the RP not to end in PvP. The fact is when opposing roles meet, they're not just going to let their foes walk away.
I can't expect any RP I have with a Vigilantee on my LR to end in anything less than PvP, because that would be against what vigilantees are about. The more interesting RP involves two roles who are not opposing forces meet.
There are many RP opportunities with people who are not your enemies also. So if you're sick of your RP always ending in PvP, try roleplaying more ofte with your allies or people who you are not enemies with. Because if you go seeking RP from your enemies, then you are also inadvertantly seeking PvP. Which, believe it or not, is also a part of your RP interaction with them.
Of course, the most satisfying RP to me are ones that could have ended in PvP but didn't.
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