Battleships- a solution

[Denelo]

Y'know, I'm normally very much against this kind of thing, but you make some good points. Unfortunately, restricting indie battleships to player faction control leaves room for a lot of bias, but honestly, I think a good oversight system (which problem won't happen, unfortunately) might fix that.

One option would be to keep things as they are, but also add "super-battleships" that are developed due to the wars and are available only to factions and as part of SRPs. Might increase the mod size too much, not to mention all the developmental work it'd take.

Instead, I'd suggest making battleships a "trial period" thing. Sell battleships, but note battleship licenses. The person who wants the battleship has to post in a special forum section with the RP and such, much like SRPs. The admins would look at it and, if it's not completely horrible, make it visible to the rest of us and give the player in question a Battleship Trial license. If, after two weeks have passed and there are at least 10 positive posts, the admins deem it worthy, it is approved and the person in question is given a full license. At the end of one month, if 50% or more of the posts are negative, the application is denied. If there are less than 20 posts, but more than 50% of them were positive, it would again be up to the admins. Posting would be allowed only on a "I met this guy, here's what he was like" basis, and posts from the higher ups of the official factions that are in charge of the battleships would obviously count for more.

There would also be a "get rid of it" process, where the faction leaders or a number other player ask the admins to reverse that particular ID due to XXX reasons with YYY proof. I'd say the faction leader could make a request by himself, whereas other players would have to have support (at least three players) to petition for the removal of a battleship.

What do you think?

Edit: Wow, mega-ninja'd. There were only four posts when I started posting this... am I slow?

[Ceoran]

I don't see a big difference in roleplaying a battleship from roleplaying a cruiser. After all it's just a little bit smaller, the guns are weaker and the crew is smaller, but after all it need the same important persons to command it, which means the same person you can roleplay it with.

edit: meh, ninja'd twice too

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My Stories Outcast laws and structures Join Samura|-

Go play the game, within the given limitations. That is how role play games are played. Not by trying to work around those limitations or whining about them.

[Jihadjoe]

Here is my little bit of thinking.

[Wall o' Text]

Battleships should be purchasable by anybody. Why? Because it'd be wrong to make people unable to buy them.

-However- all things have to come with a touch of responsibility. In my mind every ship should be handled responsibly, from starflier to nomad battleship. It doesn't matter. What I will say though, is the larger the lolwutting ship is, the harder it is to ignore, and the quicker it can kill people.

Battleships are powerful. More powerful on their own then a cruiser, gunboat, bomber, fighter... Anything.

I do think that people should be able to petition for an irresponsible individual to have their large-ship-rights removed.

Often the people who cause problems don't directly break any rules, meaning the other way of dealing with problem players is out.

All the above said, the problem in Liberty, where epic cap-spam is traditionally most prevalent, isn't battleships. There are actualy comparatively few when you look at the numbers of LABC's floating around.

It seems like everyone and his little sister has got one of those ships. You could line them up nose to tail from New Tokyo to New Berlin, then I could dance the 'Liberty Wins' jig across the top from one end to the other. Honestly. It's just bloody absurd the numbers of these ships in existance.

Why do they exist in such numbers? Allow me to explain.

Liberty is familiar. It's safe. It's where you start the SP campaign, and it's where you start in discovery too. It's safe.

Now, players will gravitate towards what is safe because that's just human nature. They know it, and thus it becomes more attractive. Also within human nature is gravitating towards being (or seeming) powerful. The LABC is a powerful ship. Hell. It's got a pair of battleship guns on it, so it can't be too bad right?

It's also cheap by comparison to a battleship, making it a whole lot more attractive when counting the pennies to see what you can pick up at your local big-ship-with-guns shop.

The Geb light carrier is the same. The reason there are so many is because the Order is familiar, you see them in the very first few minutes of the game, they're 'cool' because they are in essence the heroes of freelancer, and that ship is both comparatively inexpensive and powerful. I mean Jeez, that one's got a freakin' battleship shield.

Often these large, powerful and familiar ships end up in the hands of people who have little understanding of how the rules or roleplay here work, or those who simply don't care. As I said before, some people don't have to break the rules to cause trouble, and that is something that needs addressing, as it can shatter the immersion we strive for in RP, and really ruin someone's day when they find they get chased for three hours round a system by three battlecruisers who have managed to spout ten words between them. (Most frequently uttered of these ten words, include 'red' variations on the 'engaging' theme, and 'scum'.)

How to deal with it.

Well in very much the same way I suggested dealing with battleships. A group of players who know the area, roleplay of the area, and understand the nature of a faction should be able to petition for troublesome individuals to have their capship (note... CAPSHIP, so cruisers, battlecruisers and battleships) rights removed.
[/Wall o' Text]

Would you look at that. It was only a small wall.

*Waits for n00bl3t*

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[JIVA]

if you re serious about it - there is a great difference between commanding a juggernaut and commanding a corvo research cruiser.

it may not apply to all factions - but it may apply to some. - global rules might damage the roleplay opportunities of those "some". - especially capital warships are not so much devided into just classes - but each one has a different purpose.

an osiris is a stealth reconnaissance battleship, a spyglass a huge sensor, a juggernaut a small colony. - they are not just battleships - and they are also not the same as cruisers.

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the [JIVA] group

[Vape]

battleships are still a problem eh?

wow not much has changed since i left

i'd say make it a decision up to the faction leaders, see how good a person is a roleplayer THEN make the decision

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[RonG777]

It won't make any difference in my opinion whether battleships are not allowed to Indy's . .

Next people will start to complain about Indy's in cruisers, then after that's banned, Indy's in Gun boats . . then bombers. . .

This argument has been going on for years . .

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--- " I might not be much help, but by God, I'm all the help you got" ---

EFFIN' ROLEPLAY GUYS ... off to flood we go for that - Hoodlum

[Exsiled_one]

actually no... Cruiser is "solvable"
BS isn't. Its a problem. it requires friends it requires time and it requires loging off from whatever you were normaly doing to prevent an "OMG CAP" invasion.

I admitt there will still be lolers around, in lesser ships, but they'll be easier to deal with.

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<span style="color:#33CC00">I AM GIVING AWAY MONEY TO CREATIVE MINDS*</span>

[Eppy]

I'm going to go with Number Two for $500, Alex.

I've been of the opinion that Battleships need to be Special RP Request regardless of who buys them for a long time now, but I think that Two does the exact same thing, and the reason is that factions are under a huge amount of scrutiny already. A smaller but very vocal part of this community take great pains to watch factions for slipups and nitpick about things; some of them are legitimate and doing a good thing by trying to enforce quality control, and some of them are just Libertarians. The Factions can't get away with much and know how not to bugger up. If an indy really desires a Battleship (or Battlecruisers, we should consider those for inclusion as well) that much he should be able to Special RP Request one (possibly for a sizable fee, maybe 250 mil, so the SpecRP Request section doesn't get spammed to death; the fee would be put towards purchase of the ship if granted); it should be pretty easy to tell the difference between a lulz and somebody who actually knows how to RP a ship that size.

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Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.

[Agran Harper]

Instead of putting this line in the middle or the end, I pull it to the very top;
Might I remind everybody, that this is not to restrict wellbehaving roleplayers and people who are actually doing their best to stay incharacter, but it is rather to restrict the "lolwutcappers" from doing... lolwutcapping...

I'm glad I asked somebody else in private, else I would have been so confused anyways. I couldn't see the point though, if you already need to join a faction to get a battleship. Now that I learned you meant PLAYER Faction - thats a whole different deal then. So yes, I voted #2. Rewards should go to persons who are worthy.

What I mean is , don't make all battle ships an 'Admin given ship' in the next mod. A lot of other servers out there (PVP, RP) still let anyone buy a battle ship and play it . . .

don't lock all the battleships on the Admin base . . (that's what I meant) :)

If it is suggested as I think it is, then it is not an admin given ship. It is restricted to the ID of the Player Faction, which indicates the faction has accepted your application beforehanded. If not, then you are KoS. If you are granted to purchase the ID, then you are allowed to fly these battleships. If you fly in there and purchase the battleship just so; report, sanction, ban, whatever (because its against the rules and you don't have the proper ID). So its not really all admin given, if I got that correctly? (key word; "if" )

Here's an idea...

Each official faction has an armory right? Why dont we make any ship with a class ten shield require, by server rules, a battleship license. Remove the ability to purchase battleship licenses from any station in the game, and have the admins give each faction armory a number of battleship licenses.

The faction can then hand these out to players they trust. Anyone who buys a ship that requires one of these licenses, but doesnt have the license, can be sanctioned, or openly attacked by that faction's members. Factions could choose whether or not to charge for these licenses in order to keep their armory's credits up.

Interesting concept to say the least, but I rather go with the original proposal, of restricting only battleships (or perhaps, one class lower) to make them more of a unique sight.

Just to get it perfectly clear (please bear in mind I'm still rather new to that part of Discovery);
Lets make an example; Currently the only lawful Liberty Faction that is allowed to fly Battleship, are the Liberty Guards. They are only a NPC Faction. The Liberty Navy is Player AND NPC Faction. They are not allowed to fly battleships. So to make this all happen, what would be the road? Making Liberty Guard to a Player Faction? Or tweaking the Guard ID (which happens to make it all even more messy)? Or making the Battleship licences ONLY given away by Owners of the Player Faction related?

A group of players who know the area, roleplay of the area, and understand the nature of a faction should be able to petition for troublesome individuals to have their capship (note... CAPSHIP, so cruisers, battlecruisers and battleships) rights removed.

/signed I hear every now and then about capital ships in high numbers engaging without a system message and are not reported...?

And last but not least; good that I preview every now and then so; Denelos's idea for battleship license trial is also a noteworthy addition that should be considered:)

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To hunt the prey is life,
to lose the prey is death,
to hunt the loss is insane...

[LoTeK_]

Owh..yet another one of those threads...
...voted two, it's the one that I think fits best.
Sayonara!
Lo