Liners need speed, not cargo space

[alance]

There are too many things that can be pointed at as "realistic" reasons why a ship can or cannot do this or that thing. Lower agility might make sense due to the size, but speed not necessarily. If we're looking for balance and a spread of ships being used in the game, then creative license like "yeah she's big but she's all engines and power plant so she's fast" is necessary.

I really want to see noticable differences from class to class and ship to ship. I'm fully in support of making Liners more interesting than their current incarnations. Does that mean more speed than other transports? Better guns? Both? Something else? In any case, if they become more unique by means that make them more capable in combat then they need to lose significant cargo space.

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"To gain a hundred victories in a hundred battles is not the highest excellence;
to subjugate the enemy's army without doing battle is the highest of excellence."

[Doom]

reduce cargohold...arm them a tad better and u have ship for showoff that is able to moderately defend itself and make decent amount of money by carrying vips and passengers...


ATM...liners are just fancy transports...fancy by looks only...

[Jinx]

bit off topic - what what would be totally cool is :

royal liner that are personalized / customized - if those ships were really really expensive , they could come with faction insignia:)

( yes, yes, i know custom skins/insignia are not possible - its been discussed - just a thought there.... )

then a faction could come up with their liner saying "look at me, this ship is OURS, its unique, its damn expensive and utterly useless, but hell, you ll never get something like that!"

on topic - call me strange, but when we had the changes, it felt - ... hmm.. strange. all of the sudden, Jinxs? luxory liner had suddenly more cargo hold than my traders large train. - still, the train "feels" more like a transport.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Gamazson]

I really want to see noticable differences from class to class and ship to ship. I'm fully in support of making Liners more interesting than their current incarnations. Does that mean more speed than other transports? Better guns? Both? Something else? In any case, if they become more unique by means that make them more capable in combat then they need to lose significant cargo space.

Ok fine I can agree with your intentions and it would be nice to have liners as a completely separate class, but can we shelf this idea for later? For right now the liners are honestly just fine. Lets leave them be for 4.84 and focus on what to do with later on closer to 4.85.

In all truth there are many things that could be done with them. The best way is to come up with several variations, program them into the a separate version of the mod and test them all out under multiple conditions. Once the team of 'Liner Testers' has concluded their finding pass on that info to Igiss and let him work from there. Liners have been a pain in Igiss's neck in regards to balance for a long time. Long before my time here actually. Arguing stats on the forum is not going to help this ship class.

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AKA Nexus

[alance]

I disagree with the idea that discussing the stats on the forums is a waste of time. Having Igiss create a bunch of different ships to test without any discussion first is the true waste of time. The direction of the class and what it means to the game is the most important consideration. Stats and then ships in game are the steps that follow.

This thread is here to suggest changes to the current Liners to make it so 90% of the traders aren't flying them in two weeks, which is likely the road ahead with the current huge cargo bays and full defensive array. We're still in beta, I'm still going to make suggestions whether or not it takes away a new-found advantage you've been enjoying.

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"To gain a hundred victories in a hundred battles is not the highest excellence;
to subjugate the enemy's army without doing battle is the highest of excellence."

[RingoW]

Concerning liner shields

Just an idea. Igiss has made the BS license to work as a scanner too. Whats about to make a liner license to work as a liner shield too?

AoM

[Gamazson]

Alrighty then, I am going to ignore that you have made a direct jab at me.

Some of my previous post we made quickly before going to work so I am going to write this one out slowly and calmly.


I agree with you latest stat suggestion for transports turrets. Those will help liners immensely. But without the heavy fire power the liners need a hold size to compensate this loss from the other version.

A thruster speed increase is not enough of a compensation. If there is no trade lane I am going to use cruise. If am using a thruster, that is likely because I have been disrupted and being chased or I am in a docking sequence.

I don't fly around in general using my thruster. Very inefficient whether that is at 139 or 199. A liner has next to no strafe ability and dodging incoming fighter weaponry just inst possible.

I do not disagree with your wish to keep everyone from from flying them just because they have more guns and amour vs. comparable transports. Why not jack the bloody price by allot? Make a liner twice as expensive? It will not solve the amount of people currently flying them, but it will prevent them from being the uber choice in the future.

The SU relies on the P-Liner to be our biggest at best. The right to fly that ship is the incentive for my members to want to progress in rank. Before it was the guns that made hold this title. In 4.84 it is the superior cargo. Take both of those away you have a large clunky ship that thrusts at 199. The only redeemable feature that would remain is the vessels look. For all intents a purposes the Pirate transport will be better at the job.

The 199 thrust speed simply does not benefit a liner. You are simply making a big target move faster. (actually the same speed the fighters already move at, and they likely have the same thruster you do) What the liners need to survive is guns and armor. Without those, at least let the darn things make a profit.

@ AoM: Actually that idea isn't half bad. the only problem is that we may have people buying the license and sticking them on trains or something. Of course we still run the same risk the BS license fro those who want a better scanner.

Can probably be solved by making it against the rules to mount a license on a ship other then the proscribed type.

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AKA Nexus

[Xing]

While I dont fly liner, I feel a bit sympathetic for them, especially for the ultra reuced cargo hold. I suggest we leave the liners like that, because they dont have maximal cargo capacities anyway so everyone would prefer buying the 5k cargo ships instead of soemthign between. those who buy liners usually do so by RP, if im not too wrong.

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[Gamazson]

Well since the cargo hike morrigan does have a point with the amount of people flying liners. Right now they are a bit cheaper and much more accessible to buy then the proper transports.

However Xing you are right. Those of us who started flying liners way back when did so for RP reasons. When you look at a Liner you can easily believe that 4000+ people are aboard that ship. But when you look at an Adv Train its hard to picture 5000 comfortable (Or properly secure) people are aboard. And vice a versa with 'dry' goods.

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AKA Nexus

[RingoW]

@ Nexus: This rule already exist. "- Using equipment that exceeds ship specs;" is considered as cheating.
Liner License for liners only and BS license for BS only.

Additionally to a specific shield you need a liner turret class 6.

For example:

damage : 250 / 500
refire rate: 4.00
range: 1200
velocity: 1000 m/s
energy : 800 - 1000

AoM