AGNUS DEI

[Zelot]

First off, I know you don't want to get into a OOC conversation about religion. The problem is just cause you say we should talk ooc about it does not mean that it doesn't need to be talked about. Now, I want every one to know right now, I am very, very uncomfortable with bring religions based on RL religions anywhere into this game. You say how this is a sci-fi religion, but you start out with this?

The research team had the original idea to use a data bank referring to an ancient book, then knowned as "The Bible". They found throughout the book many references about love, faith, and redemption,

so what you are saying is that you want to introduce a Judea-Christan inspired religion into the universe of disco freelancer. I have to say, if this happens I will probably leave. Now to preface this, I do believe in G-d, I am a religious person, I'm not going to talk about what religion I am here, cause it shouldn't matter (although if you know about such things it is fairly easy to figure out).



Religion can be a wonderful, amazing part of a persons life, but it is also responsible for more death than anything else in the history of man. It can be a very dangerous thing, and can bring out the absolute worst in people. Now don't get me wrong, I think this is a well written, strong peice of RP....but that doesn't mean it should be included in our server. There is a risk of alienating many people on this server, and while that may or may not happen, but I don't think it is worth the risk.



My two credits

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[Malaclypse 666]

Very well written. Quite entertaining in fact.

I will not go into the points which have already been addressed here (Sirius wide police, any ship & any weapon, etc.) save one. The concept is perfectly fine, no problem mentioning "religion" in a way, however, I would remove any mention of actual real life present day religions. Ergo, I would not use the Bible as your factions reference material. Replace it with some sort of made up religious writing. Other than that stellar introduction.

I concur that the Agnus.Dei concept is worth a go..

however, I would remove any mention of actual real life present day religions.

Umm.. Aaron. I think I'm offended. You sayin' Discordianism is not real and contemporary?

Google "Ring of Fnords". Discordians have experienced an immense resurgence. We're comin' out of the walls, bud. I suggest a brief conciliatory prayer to Eris...

It sounds like this "Maria" thing would be a suitable substitute for these kooks as a "Holy Tome", instead of that other Nicean storybook.

Mal.

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[Oniros]

Yes... I concur you are perfectly right Zelot.
We definetly need to talk about the principle coming from" the Bible" and remove our name codification. Maybe we could just create someting new ? I'm not talking about creating a religion because it is not a religion. A codex for the space marine like warhammer 40.000 ? if it makes people more comfortable, it is not a big deal to modify the source. Let us time to see how the Code Marie will be done. (to give you an exemple read this, this song was an inspiration for me and the Faure's Requiem too)

I will speak for myself: i see no problem if we remove any Bible reference and build our faith from scratch. However, I'd like to keep the rank they sound very expressive. We did not push the religious idea beyond what we already know in real life, it was easier to build the concept itself with our own RL reference. So maybe, it is time to go further... I don't know right now. Whatever... main request edited.

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"Perfection, honesty, devotion"
"Immortality is our subconscious main concern"
"To change the system, you have to be inside the system and play by the rules"

[beander2]

With all due respect, I have to concur with AC_Merc and Zelot. While the storyline is deep and fascinating, and would in most ways add to RP gameplay, using an existing RL faith tradition in so straightforward a manner is troubling (especially during what is "Holy Week" for those who actually worship Agnus Dei). It seems that given the story parameters you mention, their referents (Bible, names of apostles, etc.) would need to be more explicitly twisted in some fashion. Otherwise, it seems to just appropriate a faith tradition as-is in RL and plug in drug-enhanced delusional characters. That doesn't make sense to me.

The one other thing I wonder about is whether the faction should be so friendly toward Kusari and Rheinland authorities, or even neutral to Bretonian and Liberty forces. It stands to reason that the "corrupted" are found everywhere, not simply in officially "corrupt" factions. In fact, would your faction not assume that there is something particularly lacking in the existing authorities?

On the other side of that coin, it also stands to reason that those house authorities would not take too kindly to interference by an outside military faction, especially one so fanatical. Were I a house authority, I would ban your presence in my territory, which of course means hostility. While this is a perfectly acceptable (and even interesting) RP scenario, there is no mechanism in your proposal to account for it.

That said, my compliments on the thought and work that went into this; it is a model for the rest of us.:)

(And Ghostface, there are other trading companies in the works, which should make things a little more interesting...;))

EDIT: Oniros posted above as I was writing this, so thank you for already addressing my first paragraph here. Very good work.

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Sir Alisdair Buchanan, KBE ~ Gateway)Trafalgar

[Oniros]

OK, Last post before sleep. Edited and removed all reference to the Bible
If someone has a nice proposal for the rank of Apostle, welcome.

About ships and weapons and ZOI, we wish to start in Rheinland because of the wild activities in New Berlin. We will probably discuss about "events" to organize a formal diplomatic mission and it will be our first step on the server. I hope that everything is clear about the limited access conditioned by the acceptance of our presence in a House.
I need time to write to the leader of KNF, SA, RM and QCRF. I will need the help and advices of the Inner Circle. Yeah everyone forget that the money, the project itself is controlled by the Inner Circle :)And the Inner Circle don't discuss religious matters, only investments and assets. (Btw, is there any RepEx agent ready to invest in the project ? half kidding but PM in case of)

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"Perfection, honesty, devotion"
"Immortality is our subconscious main concern"
"To change the system, you have to be inside the system and play by the rules"

[Vape]

there ya go, i like the name,
the Golden PAth ( i think)
has a nice ring to it

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[gauliez]

Maybe, I will add my two cents too.

I have been the last one to come to this project, merely only proofreading the Faction status translation in fact. But here is how I see it, Oniros correct me if you disagree.
I wrote this at the same time as Oniros last answer, so some of the points below have already been mentionned and will ony be further developped (well, it means we see it the same way:))

* About removing mention to the Bible part, I definitely agree. The "Code Marie" as of now has no real extract of Bible as far as I can tell, just a way to turn maxims that make think to some Judea-christian orders as the Crusaders for example i.e. "Thou shalt...". We might also add some pieces from completely other sources, religious or not, it is still under discussion.
So with our current introduction and by keeping the names (Crusaders, Apostles,...) and the Code Marie formulation, would that seems better and less subject to controversy ?

* Then, the second though point seems to be about being a Sirius wide faction or even a Sirius Police faction, with many different ships/weapons. What will be crucial to avoid it is the role of our Inner Circle.

We are a private army of former psychopaths under the command of private investors called the Inner Circle.

The nine members of the Inner Circle are: the five Apostles, two rich investors, a Kishiro Engineer and a Doctor from Cryer

So, it won't only be about religious fanatism, but there will also be quite a lot of business going around at the Inner Circle level. How I see it basically is that Agnus Dei will act as follow :
- anytime, fight Nomads and Wilds when encountered, cause they are Evil.
- in every house, it will depend of their diplomatic relations with our Inner Circle. Some Houses can probably use a private army, and we will then reinforce them, and why not act as a local Police force. Some Houses will probably be scared, and therefore we will be acting more clandestinely, trying to convert enough members there to become more influential. At some point (really later), some House might even be declared as corrupted (though I don't know if it really match Oniros vision, but I think it is up to the Inner Circle to decide)
- it might be the same with the Order for example, we could fight together or not depending on the Inner Circle interests. The only limit will be the "Code Marie", which will remains quite vague, but will still prevent us from allying with unlawful factions.

That is the bulk of it, normal citizens will become Agnus Dei after some long initiation, and will then keep a lawful IFF, change their ID to Military, use the Agnus Dei tag and start to act according to the Inner Circle guidelines relative to their system. As already said, they shall not leave their system, and will therefore use the ships/weapons available in their system.

I heard about this project really recently, and my first reaction was "What, introducing religion ? Are they crazy or do they really like being chopped down ?". Then, I proofreaded the first version of the Faction status, and I got convinced that it was not about religion as in RL (you can see it as Sci-Fi or an ersatz of old Crusaders), that there are enough safeguards to keep the faction from turning berserk and that it could definitely add a lot to FL RP.

Continue to comment it, as I think it will only make this project better and better, as it has the seeds for becoming a great playable faction and just need some minor arrangements.

Edit : After re-reading the Faction Status in regard of my post, I think some points in the To Do list might need redefining (2. and 3.). Indeed, the vision of the Corrupted in the current Status triggers the possibility of turning into a kind of Super-Police. If the Corrupted are rather defined by diplomatic way, it is really then less likely. We will always be unfriendly to unlawful factions because of "Code Marie", but the priority targets (the Corrupted) will be only some well-defined factions, unlawful or maybe neutral.

[beander2]

If someone has a nice proposal for the rank of Apostle, welcome.

I don't think there's a problem with this rank title, if that's what you mean. "Apostle" is a more general term, not faith tradition-specific.

Thanks for the info on acceptance into the houses/letter to authorities, etc. That makes sense, as does some continued tension and (mutual) suspicion in those relationships (which, again, might make it even more interesting).

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Sir Alisdair Buchanan, KBE ~ Gateway)Trafalgar

[Oniros]

Last edited : 10:42am 20/03/2008
Replaced : Enlightened rank by Templar
Replaced : Apostles rank by Enlightened : they have followed the Golden path and reached the last state of conscience to merge with Deus.


Now how to deal with the super-police breach ?
To do 2) Redefine and be very specific about who are "the Corrupted". In my own concept, a "Corrupted" is someone truly evil, a mastermind, someone that could lead an army and bring destruction. This bad guy and his thugs might come to our list. (The Archdevil ?) In FL remember the Kusarian nomad-infested in Tohoku ... he is a kind of Archdevil. Definitetly, a player RPing a evil character with twisted mind will be a perfect opponent for Agnus Dei.
We, Enlightened, were evils but Deus save us. We can do the same with our former brethens, show them the Golden Path to perfection. If we fail then we shall destroy the root of Evil.

Otherwise Gauliez is right, there is a lot of business with the Inner Circle and what he can decides for the future can be surprising. Only Code MARIE will keep us to do anything "wrong" and keep our RP in a strict line of conduct.

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"Perfection, honesty, devotion"
"Immortality is our subconscious main concern"
"To change the system, you have to be inside the system and play by the rules"

[bluntpencil2001]

I'm glad to see this done in such a mature fashion, but still, I must urge you to tread carefully.

As for opponents, the entire House of Rheinland would likely hate you, as would the SCRA and various terrorist organisations. Bretonia and Liberty are likely to be more accepting if you kept your nose out of running things.

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