Farmers Alliance and Kusari Naval Forces ID's

[globalplayer-svk]

so, i try it again, farmers try to clean kusari of all foreign. you see afa pirate someone in kusari transport for example? i think no. advanced train is foreign ship for example( ok, maybe not best example) we never pirate someone who has tag rom kusari (police,navy,samura,hogosha, or fa) but when is someone tagged as foreign faction, he is target. ň
and when you still will say that is oorp, first please take a look on your ship. i think it is not civilian bomber as all gc npc use civilian ships,and all pc use blood dragon bombers (and i will not start flame)

or other question, how is possible then that outcast and BAF have shadow deal ? one is lawfull other unlawfull. and everything is clear in rp. outcast do not pirate in bretonia and bretonia military is not hunting them. or corsairs and kusari. lawfull vs unlawfull. and they have shadow deal. corsairs try not to pirate there ( i know indies are there always ) but hwne corsairs pass trough knf is not attacking them. but nothing from that is public. everythign from this deals is hidden. the same with afa and kusari goverment.

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[Guest]

Ahh..yes, Mjolnir have a point better than mine.
I tend too much forgetting there are some game limitations.

Heh..speaking of which...here is another example, Blood Dragons are helping the BAF against us.

[Akumabito]

The BAF are not fighting alongside the dragons and outcasts, so that's entirely different.

The AFA are not acting on the server like the AFA, they are acting like the KNF. There is no difference except for the very occasional pirating of the AFA.

Saying the KNF/AFA relationship is a shadow deal is like saying brad pitt and angelina jolie have a secret relationship.

[globalplayer-svk]

ok, i use your own weapons.

what is difference between blood dragons and GC ? players from that factions have the same enemies, the same allies and what is more important use THE SAME SHIPS AND WEAPONS. so GC are blood dragons. right ?

difference between KNF and AFA
ships, afa use only civilian ships,civilian guns, not kusari military ships, (bombers,fighters,gb,cruisers,etc.)
KNF is main power of kusari goverment, afa are only angry farmers that hate gc,blood dragons and all foreign.
and can you tell me, how you think the AFA must acting ?
be openly hostile? not possible, since samure is behind farmers and samura control goverment (in short words)
acting like police/military only ? not possible because kusari has police and military.
so what you suggest for farmers as best ?

i will still say. famer alliance is group of angry farmers that wil lhave clean kusari from all foreign, and they use for it ways,that knf or samura can not use (pirating,) but they still have samura behind them ...

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[Zelot]

ok, I am properly formulating a reply for this question, I am looking through the many posts made by me and others about the farmers RP, and it may take half hour or so for me to get it posted, so cool your heels. I will reply soon with a full explanaition for you.

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[unicorn]

And... I never saw any AFA to pirate. I saw as they attacked bretonnian traders. I saw as they asked (!) donations for the workers of Kusari, and they said "its absolutely optional". They never attacked anyone who did not give any donation.

I saw when they attacked someone who spoke with defaming tongue about kusari or people of kusari, or had kusari (FA, Hogosha, police, KNF) pilots onboard and refused to drop them.

Actually the AFA is an organization of Farmers Alliance, and their purpose is to support the people of Kusari by fighting against the gaijin influence, and enemies of Kusari. If the situation requires it, at the side of KNF, yes.

They are not-so-lawful ones, like "Han Solo" of SW, who joined for a lawful force.

There are ID's in this game, and there are RP as well. There are lawfuls vs lawfuls, and ulf vs. ulf. And the enemy of my enemy is my ally. There are many undercovered ally in discovery already.

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Good playtime for everyone!
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<span style="font-family:Arial">- [KNF-K]Uyeshiba - Liutenant, Kusari Naval Forces, Kusari Bomber; Pilot name: Sensei Uyeshiba Shomen
[b]- [KNF]Uyeshiba - Liutenant, Kusari Naval Forces, Wyrm light fighter; Pilot name: Sensei Uyeshiba Shomen
- [KNF]Sukumei - Liutenant, Kusari Naval Forces, Kusari Gunboat; Pilot name: Sensei Uyeshiba Shomen
- Unicorn-trade_co - container transport ship of the family enterprise, piloted by a Hungarian descendant
</span>

[Akumabito]

Actually Samura is the main power of the Kusari government, not the KNF, the KNF is just Samura's thugs pretending to be legit.

The issue isn't that the AFA and the KNF are both run by Samura, that's not really how it is.

The FA isn't controlled by Samura like the emperor and KNF, the FA are farmers with their own agenda, being manipulated by samura against synth foods. If synth food ever is driven out of Kusari, Samura will crush the FA to continue their monopolization of the food supply with their own genetically modified rice.

So there is a whole dynamic there that isn't being played. You call it a shadow deal, but unlike the real shadow deals you mention the AFA act like they belong to the KNF openly. That openness means the FA is no longer valuable to Samura, because the cover is blown and everyone knows the AFA is simply another word for KNF now.

That's why you should work seperately from the KNF (In agreement with the rules of your ID as well)

That's a dramatically different situation from the CG and BD who are both pirates working against the illegitimate, samura run government of Kusari.

[song]

Actually Samura is the main power of the Kusari government, not the KNF, the KNF is just Samura's thugs pretending to be legit.

The issue isn't that the AFA and the KNF are both run by Samura, that's not really how it si.

The FA isn't controlled by Samura like the emperor and KNF, the FA are farmers with their own agenda, being manipulated by samura against synth foods. If synth food ever is driven out of Kusari, Samura will crush the FA to continue their monopolization of the food supply.

So there is a whole dynamic there that isn't being played. You call it a shadow deal, but unlike the real shadow deals you mention the AFA act like they belong to the KNF openly. That openness means the FA is no longer valuable to Samura, because the cover is blown and everyone knows the AFA is simply another word for KNF now.

That's why you should work separately from the KNF (In agreement with the rules of your ID as well)

That's a dramatically different situation from the CG and BD who are both pirates working against the illegitimate, samura run government of Kusari.

The power behind Kusari isn't the "government" or emperor--its the Shogunate. Unfortunately, Freelancer doesn't talk a lot about the details of it.

Corporations are generally inferred to be "kieretsu" but are really more like "zaibatsu".

The first are post WWII versions of Japanese corporations that the allies allowed to continue after the war. They were fully independent companies with governmental privilege, connections and obligation removed.

The sort of big corporations that existed before WWII were the zaibatsu. They had family ties and influence with the government. They were almost like fiefdoms with land and title given by the government in return for service. These were pretty much done away with by the allies as a condition of reconstruction.

The "shadow" of the ziabatsu still remaining in Japan today allows kieretsu--companies that the government may assist by virtue of what they provide--but it doesn't favor one over the other as a rule. In the old days, only those in favor with the government prospered and the Shogunate could 'request' anything from them that they wanted if those companies wanted to continue to enjoy that favor. Those companies out of favor had little chance of success.

The current society in Kusari is a hybrid between these two. Samura probably being the closest thing to a ziabatsu.

In my estimation, Kusari society is much like pre-WWII Japanese culture. More so than other times. It has a strong "bent" toward feudal Japanese times but also a modest representation of progressive Japanese movements personified in the Blood Dragons and Golden Chrysanthemums. Much like the reforms that began to gather support during and after the great depression.

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<span style="font-family:System">Hogosha Exile</span>
The Journal of Benjo Dokosai

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[Zelot]

From AFA feedback page, where this topic probably should have been posted

http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...ic=15381&hl=

First, AFA pilots are strictly forbidden from pirating while KNF or KSP are in the system. If you see it happening, PM me and I will take care of it, and I would also assume I would hear about it from KSP and KNF.

As to the Closeness of KNF and AFA, The Britonians war has changed the dynamics alittle in Kusari, the AFA are a Xenophobic, Nationalistic militia, and in a time of war, they would be helping to defend their home, as such, we find ourselves working against the very same enemies as the KNF, and fighting along side each other has helped to develop a sense of camaraderie amongst the two groups, this has naturally resulted in an increase in official and un-official co-operation between KNF and AFA.

This is from the KSP faction creation post, where this topic was disscussed.

http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...mp;#entry227156

I think the major point to make clear here is how the Britonian-Kusari war has changed things. As I see it (and the way I am doing the RP for AFA) is that hogosha and FA are loyal Kusari citizens, and in the face of a war, they would fall more in line with KNF. Because of this AFA has decided that external threats are much more important right now. It is up the the AFA as loyal Kusari to fight off the foreign enemies right along side KNF and KSP. As for the info cards, I am moving alittle away from them for the AFA rp right now. We are not attacking Kishiro, as I belive Gaijin enemies are much more important right now. So you wont find AFA attacking any Kusari, with the exception of GC and Dragons. As for GMG this is a more complex issue. The fact that they support the dragons should put them at least neutral, and if they are shipping to Britonia, I would think unfreindly. Just rememebr, the info cards were written to have taken place what, 15 years ago? We have to allow that things have changed, just look at the outcast/mollies/Britonian relasionship, if you looked stricktly at the info cards and NPC actions, this would make no sense, but if you look at the disco universe as dynamic, and changing, it would be silly to keep looking at things in exactly the same way.

This is from Unsille on a thread about the Farmers RP that you should read in it's entirty.

http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...ic=13287&hl=

You cant be lawful and pirate at the same time.Why not? Never have I heard of any agreements between houses to obey the same legal structure, and I would expect them to be quite different. The idea that a foreign trader has rights in kusari is a construction because you assume you would have rights in another country, and they do, generaly, treat you with basic human dignity.

But has Kusari Ever granted SynthFoods the right to trade in Kusari space?

Often governments themselves are pirates....what right does the government have to demand a tax? Or to claim immenent domain? To annex land?
Farmer's alliance is tagged a criminal group because they pirate, not because they are criminals.
And here's something else to think about: If a group of people runs a spacestation, independent of any other group, they are a nationstate. Thats what a nationstate is. A group of people, and a territory, who are independent from any other group. Can such an entity be considered an unlawful group? Point of view. Why is Liberty lawful, and The Order unlawful? The Order must have laws, regulations, territory, and are an independent group, which makes them a nation. So, Liberty must be the unlawful group, for attacking the lawful citizens of The Order.

This is my post from the same thread, I enbolded things that were particulary relevent to this thread

ok here we go.

The first thing to take into account when talking about the Farmers RP is the Kusari culture and what the dominante issue in Kusari is. Unlike the uninimity of the other houses, Kusari is a house divided. There are two ideologies in Kusari. The first is for modernization and expanding relations with other houses and corperations. This is represented by the GC and Blood Dragons. The other is isolationist and in favor of keeping the tradional ways of Kusari. This side being represented by The Farmers and Hogoshu. All over Kusari you see news and rumors adressing this issue. They talk about how Kusari traditionaly has been a very insular sociaty. Kusari was the last house to have tradelanes. Deshima and Roppongi are so inflamitory to them because they are seen as encrochment of foreigners into Kusari space.

Now, the KNF and Kusari governemnt are stuck in the middle. The Farmers and Hogoshu have more sway with the KNF, because the GC and Dragons are looking to destroy the Kusari governemnt, so obviously the KNF see the Hogoshu and Farmers as, at the least, the lesser of two evils. The KNF have an intresting type of relationship with the Hogoshu and Farmers, it's a "wink, wink, nudge nudge" relationship. If you don't know what that means, it sort of that the KNF are in favor of the things the Hogoshu and FA are working for, but can't say that publicly. I think this is a very common relationship on RL.

So with that as a back drop, lets talk about the Farmers.

First, and most basicly, look at the the infocard posted at the top of this topic. It doesnt say the Farmers are against Synthfoods and no one else. If you look at the groups on the enemy list, they are all groups trying to bring foreign influance into Kusari (Foreign corps), or groups that are trying to overthrow the Shogun. (Blood Dragons, GC).

Why is synthfoods singled out you ask. Well, Synthfoods is the personification of the "Foreign Corperation", they peddle a product that is cheap and easy to transport. They push thier way into markets and develop a monopoly. (Think Wal-Mart in the states, they open a store in an area, with lower priced lower quality products, and all the local, small buisness are forced to fold.) Synthfoods was the first foreign company into Kusari and made deals with the government that were very bad for Kusari. Synthfoods was not put on the list to the exclusion of all others, it is just the main example of the ideology the Farmers are fighting against.

The main aspect of the Farmers RP is that they are fighting against what they perseve as threats to the traditional way of life in Kusari. The GC bring in drugs, which are destroying the youth of Kusari. Foerign Corps bring foreign ideas into Kusari, which the FA see as a threat. The Farmers ideal would be that all foergin corps are thrown out of Kusari. They are an ethnocentric group, meaning that they feel the Kusari culture is better than all others, and therefore interaction with other cultures is going to damage the purity of Kusari. I know it's been said before, and it's fairly simplistic, but think Kusari Xenos.

The Farmers Alliance was started by farmers who had lost jobs due to the influx of cheap synthfood, but it is completly rational that this group would become a banner, that various groups of Kusari, who feel they have been hurt by foreigners, could rally and unite under. It is illogical to think that the Farmers Alliance when it was started and the Farmers Alliance today would be the same. The Farmers Alliance would better be described as a workers rights group as opposed to a Farmers rights group. The reason it is the Farmers alliance, and not the Miners or the teachers or the chopstick makers (was that bad?), alliance, is that it was started by farmers, but is not nessesaraly exclusive to them.

I take issue with the comment that we are just looking for a way to pirate without risk. I have worked very hard both in game and here on the boards, to develop the Farmers RP so everyone could see and understand it (and I mean waaaaayyyy before the AFA.) I find it intresting that someone who is flying a trader with NO TAG and GENERIC ID is coming after our RP. Traders who do this are the worst. It would be so much easier to RP the Farmers if 90% of the traders didnt do this. Traders who do this are saying "I have no connections to anyone, so you shouldnt mess with me." I have a TON of respect for Simon for RPing a trader that is a memebr of the House Corp with the most enemies out their. Yeah, I'm sure it's much harder for him, but I'm sure he has soooo much more fun. This goes for all traders playing corprate ID's. It's easy to RP have no connections to anyone, cause there is none. It's harder to play a corprate character with the complex diplomacy connected to it.

If anyone still has unanswered questions, feel free to post them and I will do my best to answer them.
Thanks for reading all the way to the bottom guys.

Now as for the for the issue of the ID. There are many lawful/unlawful agreements in disco. The first and foremost is the Order/Corsair alliance, we have the Mollys and Britonians, Outcasts and Britonains. We have had many conversations about the inability for the terms "lawful" and "Unlawful" to fully express the complexities of a good roleplay universe. "Lawful" and "Unlawful" restrict proper RP, and we in disco have generally decided that where the ID's become a hindrance to RP(which is not their purpose) it's is ok to go with the RP. Look at the Xeno's, their ID prohibits demanding Cargo, but they felt it was a restriction to their roleplay, and were allowed by the admins and community to demand cargo. The Main reason for the KNF and AFA to fight together is that they have 75% of the same enemies. When GC and the Blood Dragons show up, what should we do? AFA stands back and doesn't engage the enemy because KNF is fighting them? KNF doesn't engage because AFA is fighting them? Both of those options are HORRIBLE RP. So what is your answer to how we should handle having common enemies and sharing the same space? Once the Kusari/Britonia war is over things will change again, this is one of the wonderful benefits to having a dynamic RP universe, things change, relationships expand and contract and develop in interesting and unpredictable ways.

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[ivr56]

http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13003
Read It. Explains why we are neutral to Kusari government and we we do what we do.


Quote from AFA Fraction info

We are an unlawful faction in Sirius, but we are neutral to the Kusari Government, as our goals are not to topple the government as the Blood Dragons wish, but to reform the Government, working to bring the Kusari Government back in line with the traditional ways of self reliance and independence. We will bring about this change through extensive use of information dissemination, and political lobbying. This is a war of ideas and the more the Kusari citizen knows about the problem the more popular our ideas will become. Our goal is to convince the Kusari government and people to reject the outside influences that have soiled our young Kusari. Our hope is one day to fight alongside the lawful factions of Kusari in enforcing an embargo on foreign traders.

End quote

That with Zelots post above mine will be enough you help you understand.

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