Docking ring weaponry

[Sciamach]

There is no tactical value in disrupting commerce in the nation we're trying to overthrow, as that would be harmful to us if we succeeded.

There's also no tactical value in assaulting a position such as a capital world with just a few fighters or even some gunboats. There's absolutely no sense in throwing away lives like that, as it gains you absolutely nothing inRP, in-game or in-Lore.

What you're doing when you assault a capital planet in the way you're describing is basically sending 3 people onto Normandy beach on the day of the invasion, rather than the full force amassed.

That's not guerrilla warfare, that's suicide.

Guerrilla warfare is hitting enemies in weakpoints in quick, concise, and precise strike, it is NOT assaulting strongholds with just a few ships.

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[ sci·am·ach ]
/sīˈamək/

A simple, angry man casually working his way through life on a personal quest to acquire copious amounts of street cred.

[Char Aznable]

Wow, okay, it seems I hit a nerve.

You hit a nerve? Far from it. Your argumentation is just going in circles. You're using PvP-Reasoning while I am using RP-Reasoning. Since this is an RP server I was thinking that the latter would apply.

Sorry, it's not anything personal. Don't think yourself too important. You're 2ic of Hellfire

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#notmyfrankfurt

[Kaghuros]

Just wondering, but is there a reason why the outmanned and insular Hellfire Legion separatists would waste valuable resources and manpower sitting around in the orbit of the capital planet of one of the most powerful nations in Sirius?

I get that you like being there from an OOC perspective, but does it really make sense in character?

[Vendetta]

Pirates etc should not be around planetary docking rings anyway without getting shot at and expect to die immediately once moving into the defense perimeter. There's no reason to change it. If unlawfuls want to interact with lawfuls, go to the tradelanes. Go pirate. Do what unlawfuls are supposed to do.

The problem with this statement is that not all unlawfuls are pirates. Theres still terrorists that suffer from this. Not to mention Gallia invading New London. Its just not fun for these people, and sweeping those concerns under the rug with the "lol pirates go pirate" argument just seems one-sided to me.

Last I checked Al Quaida is not rolling up AK-47s in on Times Square expecting to survive. Remember the Order attacking the Donau in the first mission? Those people knew they're going to die. Same goes for invasions. If you invade the enemies' home system, home base, expect to die. A lot.

You're trying to relate groups like the Blood Dragons and Hellfire Legion to radical suicide religous fanatics.

Its difficult when factions like that, who strive off of activity and interaction with lawfuls, who have to go to a place where they know they're going to die just to get ten seconds of fun. What's the point in them playing if people are going to idle by the planets all day? The way I see it, it's harmful to interaction, and is slowly but surely killing off revolutionary factions. Its not just a problem with the weaponry, but the players. Thats a conversation for a different thread.

Here's an example.

If I logged my HF ships to go fly around in New York, the most populated place would be Manhattan. So, I go there, to see whats up, maybe rp, maybe pew some LN/LSF/LPI, who knows, its the house of opportunity. So I get there. I start chatting up some traders, explaining the Commonwealth and our reason for fighting the Republic, how we're against piracy, and then along comes an LN guy to stop me from spreading propaganda. We're both pumped, gonna fight, boom. Docking ring missile. Dead. No one has any fun.

Why block off the most active areas in house to the vast majority of interactions?

Yeah, speaking as the head of one of your mentioned groups, we don't go raiding the very front of our enemy's core worlds to try and get some type of activity. Most of our skirmishes take place away from planets and on the fringes of KNF-patrolled space. Our rare New Tokyo raids are usually out in open space, in the fields, or near other stations. It'd be utterly stupid inRP and OORP to directly attack a planet, given how it'd be the most well-defended location in a system. Any attacks near a planet or on the surface would probably be more like traditional terrorist attacks, and would involve stealth, planning, a willingness to sacrifice oneself, etc.

And guess what? Revolutionary factions shouldn't be exempt from the ability to pirate. Camping the lanes as BD| is acceptable, you just have to be very selective with your targets. This mentality that revolutionary groups are somehow above acquiring resources for their own goals is kinda stupid, but that's a conversation for another day.

Heavily fortified planets and stations in core systems of Houses encourages unlawfuls to not bumrush the capital and instead adopt a more guerrilla-style of warfare. Lawfuls will usually still respond to you if you don't hug the planet.

See, I don't know much about BD stuff as I've never really played them as a faction, or paid attention to their actions, or flown in Kusari for that matter. So for give me for being an ignorant westerner.

Its not a matter of being exempt from piracy, its more so harmful to the "hearts and minds" approach The Legion tries to take. I agree guerilla strikes happen, but in my experience, the most activity is found in orbit, and 90% of the time in New York, they dont give chase. They want you to come in range or the insta death missiles and cancer POB.

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Currently unable to consistently be present in the Community due to life constraints.

Youtube

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[Char Aznable]

See, I don't know much about BD stuff as I've never really played them as a faction, or paid attention to their actions, or flown in Kusari for that matter. So for give me for being an ignorant westerner.

If you don't know what's going on there, why do you reference it then?

Also, how does "hearts and minds" work if you literally murder people in orbit of the capital planet?

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#notmyfrankfurt

[Komitoza]

I agree guerilla strikes happen, but in my experience, the most activity is found in orbit, and 90% of the time in New York, they dont give chase. They want you to come in range or the insta death missiles and bad POB.

Frost salts.
Fire salts.
Void salts.
Ash salts.

[Sciamach]

Its not a matter of being exempt from piracy, its more so harmful to the "hearts and minds" approach The Legion tries to take. I agree guerilla strikes happen, but in my experience, the most activity is found in orbit, and 90% of the time in New York, they dont give chase. They want you to come in range or the insta death missiles and bad POB.

So... go somewhere else? I know for a fact there's plenty of activity elsewhere. It's Liberty, legitimately the most active house in the game. Sit by a gate or on a lane and someone will show up. If they don't leave. Attacking capital planets makes absolutely no sense

And if PoBs are the issue, implement a rule that forbids planetary proximity for PoBs (seriously please do this)

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[ sci·am·ach ]
/sīˈamək/

A simple, angry man casually working his way through life on a personal quest to acquire copious amounts of street cred.

[Vendetta]

Wow, okay, it seems I hit a nerve.

You hit a nerve? Far from it. Your argumentation is just going in circles. You're using PvP-Reasoning while I am using RP-Reasoning. Since this is an RP server I was thinking that the latter would apply.

Sorry, it's not anything personal. Don't think yourself too important. You're 2ic of Hellfire

I've never considered myself important. Sarcasm noted and ignored, try and act a little more mature. I am looking at this from both sides, based more around interaction than general PvP. So please, at least read the example, where I put "propaganda spreading".

Just because your name is yellow doesnt mean you're as important as you think you are.


@"Scourgeclaw" because I'm too lazy to quote

I absolutrly understand where you're coming from.

However, at the same time, I don't really care. As wasteful as it is, in roleplay yeah it doesnt make sense, but interaction wise, it has its moments to be entertaining to all parties, from the attackers to the defenders, to even the peanut gallery on the sidelines.

I wish we had the option of a different approach, but chasing interaction has been our curse for years.

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Currently unable to consistently be present in the Community due to life constraints.

Youtube

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[Durandal]

Two faults here, both with Vendetta's and Char's positions.

1: This is not in the slightest about the HF. It's about gameplay as a whole. The server thrives on interaction, and having non interaction zones does a very good job at.. butchering interaction. Go figure. This applies to the Blood Dragons, Hessians, Bundschuh, Corsairs, Outcasts, Gaians, Mollies, you name it. You can say it's not good roleplay for them to be in orbit of a capital planet, but at the end of the day that's where a lot of factions need to go in order to interact with their enemies.

2: Char, PvP and RP are inseparable, and this game is a space shooter. You of all people should know this as you lead a faction whose primary gameplay consists of shooting things, within rather secured regions of space, mind you. The entire idea that RP and PvP are two separate entities coming from somebody whose goal it is to shoot who they deem the bad guys is rather mind boggling.

[Char Aznable]

I don't really care. As wasteful as it is, in roleplay yeah it doesnt make sense

Exactly. It doesn't make sense. Period.

2: Char, PvP and RP are inseparable, and this game is a space shooter. You of all people should know this as you lead a faction whose primary gameplay consists of shooting things, within rather secured regions of space, mind you. The entire idea that RP and PvP are two separate entities coming from somebody whose goal it is to shoot who they deem the bad guys is rather mind boggling.

Oh, so we're getting personal now?
And no. I never said that we should seperate PvP and RP. Never. You put words in my mouth, feel free to, but don't expect it to go through. Blues=/=PvP. And yes, this game is a space shooter, but as you might recall, this is also an RP server. What kind of standards are you trying to set here?

And sorry, there's literally no need for factions to assault capital planets to get interactions. Especially not for HF - if even the Blood Dragons of all people get enough interactions off of the planet, in "dead house", I'd say it's safe to assume that there is actually interaction away from capital planets.

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#notmyfrankfurt