' Wrote:Tenacity, keep it up mate, you think I just look at reports and say, "What they hey, let's sanction someone"?
I'd have been out of the job within three weeks. Yeah I post em, but I don't do them alone. Consensus is required, and we get it. Actually I've been arguing AGAINST the Bs| sanction in the Admin forums, so what do you think now?
One of our Admin rules is that we ignore NO report we get submitted and we act upon the evidence given, so we do what we are required to do by Igiss.
Don't give a rat's ass about the consequences of my actions? Well thank you, I spend an awful lot of time worrying about how my actions affect this server, it bothers me that these sanctions have negative effects beyond their intended. What upsets me more however is you demanding we spend three hours on every sanction and yet you throw an accusation like that with zero research yourself.
I am offended by this, severely so. Thank you. You've become one more reason that I'm thinking of quitting.
Del's right. Tenacity, this is just about this Black Squadron v. Bluntage squabble. The Admins do their Discovery jobs as best they can, but remember, not all of them can be around. Everyone from Igiss to our very own Fellow Hoodlum have other things to contend with. Look, it's a game, and really, you shouldn't be getting all worked up over a few pixels and imaginary money.
A way a lone a last a loved a long the riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay,
brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.
Quote:Guess what? As long as he's within server rules you have to be the bigger man and bite the bloody bullet. You don't have to like it. No, you're allowed to be pissed the hell off about. That's your human right, and it's not all that uncommon with something like this. But the moment you take the anger and frustration serverside, with RP or not, that's when you're in the wrong.
It sucks, and it's too bad, but that's how it is.
Then how did we get away with Cap Reg? That's anarchist thinking. Static gameplay isn't conducive to longevity.
Quote:Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen
The rules do clearly state that it is a violation for player factions to try and prevent independent characters from performing actions which are in-line with the established NPC RP and ID rules, even if those independents end up giving the player factions a bad name. While this is unfortunate in certain situations, and in my opinion the Order has no business assaulting Liberty, much less with a Zoner Juggernaut, this rule is in place to prevent factions from completely controlling everything and making independent characters practically unplayable. I support the rule, as a whole.
However, this rule also makes it completely illegal for a faction to institute mandatory capship registration/approval for anyone with the proper tag and ID. While the LN can ban BHG and other capships in Liberty, and enforce that ban, they have no authority to ban independent LN capships (though I'm not sure if they even try anymore, the LN was just an example, though it also applies to the Outcasts, etc.).
On a secondary note, I believe some Admin-intervention may be called for in certain situations which are flagrantly OORP, yet technically don't break any rules... Such as an Order Juggernaut camping Manhattan, or any ship camping any major enemy base/planet.
On a tertiary note, with the coming of 4.85 and so many new ships, for so many different NPC factions, I'd like to see a rule banning the use of allied/friendly ships beyond a certain class (such as fighters) without a Special RP Request. This could of course be waved in certain situations, such as one faction supplying ships to close allies who themselves lack a ship of that class.
Kurosora, if it was just Black Squadron v Bluntage the indies wouldnt have been sanctioned for their only involvement being his now-unauthorized status as a battleship.
Independants cant enforce house laws. House Laws might I add that are put into place by the ruling player faction?
Damn, I could have been sanctioned 100 times over on Krusa by now in addition to many other people for enforcing laws put into place by Liberty's ruling player faction....
edit: Drake "independent characters from performing actions which are in-line with the established NPC RP and ID rules"
For Order to be in-line with NPC RP while in New York, i'd honestly like to see some Order Patrols in Zone-21 just as there are LN patrols at the alaska jumphole in minor.
And note how heavily contested the cap registration business is? I don't agree with shooting someone down because you don't think they're worthy to fly your faction's pixels, myself.
Tenacity, we ALL screw up. One time I did REALLY bad and got a 3-in-1 sanction. I defended my point in a way that was for the most part respectful. After the replies stopped coming, I dropped it, got on my trader, and worked my way back to my current standpoint. You and the Bs| messed up, big whooping deal. You don't have to take the forums by storm and whine about it. So you lose a few guns, some credits, and your cargo. It's nothing you can't get back. And the Bs| had no right to force their faction RP on that Zoner Juggernaut. Yes, we know he shouldn't have it, but that isn't the point. Bluntage was doing what many indy Order players do. Order indies have attacked Liberty, or at least gone there for some reason or another. I've seen two Osirises in NY attacking Dreadnaughts. I've seen Order players come and go in Liberty. There may not necessarily be any NPCs, but there is RP to those actions. Del and Xoria are right in what they said. The Order is an organization whose goal is to exterminate the Nomads. But Liberty gets in the way. Liberty threatens their plans and the Order, Bs| or not, have the right to defend those plans in-RP. And we're here to have fun. It's a game after all. Why must you make so much drama out of one sanction?
Faction means teamwork. Teamwork means sharing victory and defeat. On these last few days you have felt the shattering defeat of the Admin Sanction/Banhammer. Let this be a lesson to you.
' Wrote:Kurosora, if it was just Black Squadron v Bluntage the indies wouldnt have been sanctioned for their only involvement being his now-unauthorized status as a battleship.
Independants cant enforce house laws. House Laws might I add that are put into place by the ruling player faction?
Damn, I could have been sanctioned 100 times over on Krusa by now in addition to many other people for enforcing laws put into place by Liberty's ruling player faction....
edit: Drake "independent characters from performing actions which are in-line with the established NPC RP and ID rules"
For Order to be in-line with NPC RP while in New York, i'd honestly like to see some Order Patrols in Zone-21 just as there are LN patrols at the alaska jumphole in minor.
One of those 'indies' now has a Bs| tag.
A way a lone a last a loved a long the riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay,
brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.
Quote:You and the Bs| messed up, big whooping deal. You don't have to take the forums by storm and whine about it. So you lose a few guns, some credits, and your cargo. It's nothing you can't get back. And the Bs| had no right to force their faction RP on that Zoner Juggernaut. Yes, we know he shouldn't have it, but that isn't the point.
As I said, none of the sanctions involved me specifically, I just dont want this to become something that happens constantly.
Sorry, but I dont want to have to fear a sanction against me every time I try to RP in the game just because some other player doesnt agree with it. That's what this is starting, and nobody seems to be looking ahead in that manner except me.
Should players really have to spam the rules forum every time they want to take any little action in-game, just to make sure they arent going to be sanctioned? I'm sorry, but when I'm playing I dont have time to hop to the forums and type up a post explaining myself while i'm trying to chase some smuggler or pirate. If the server starts to be run like that, I'm gone, end of story - that takes every bit of fun out of this mod.
Well, we have common sense for a reason. Say you want to be a Lane Hacker. You want to fly a bomber, but there is no bomber for that faction. So what you do is, you fly up to Palermo Base and grab a Falcata. It's made by your allies, who have massive amounts of resources. Simple, right?
Now for a more difficult one. You are a junker, and you want to fly junker officials around safely. But transports of large size would not serve you well in the junk fields. So you would need an armored transport. But wait, those aren't sold on junker bases! Well, seeing as you're of a semi-lawful faction, you -can- land on certain lawful bases. You land on one, buy an armored transport, and if anyone asks, you're a successful junkyard dog.
Many, many more scenarios like this could have a simple RP solution.
A way a lone a last a loved a long the riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay,
brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.
Come to D-USA if you can't handle it, and say hello to the whopping player base of 40+
In the end, no one is condoning anyone's actions, and no one is saying it's a joy to deal with. The fact is you just can't, and never will be able to, enforce specific faction RP onto affiliated players that chose not to be in your faction. You can call it anything you want, but that's what it boils down to, and that's what is, and will always be taboo, until the hardcoded RP takes a turn down another road.
If it was up to me, everyone would RP everything out and there would be not one sanction report. Ever. That's how I play, but that's not how a server works with this many personalities and varying viewpoints and opinions. We just have to abide by what we have to, and deal with the mud if we're forced to walk through it. The server is, for the most part, pretty accommodating to any and all RP, we can see that for one by the special RP characters forum. But when it comes to having a faction RP that's different than what's hardcoded, you're even allowed that. I think it's pretty generous. But you simply can't take one path and kill anyone who doesn't want to follow it. They can be an idiot about it, but if they're an idiot within rule, you're the one bringing yourself down to their level by killing them for it. We just can't do that.
' Wrote:And note how heavily contested the cap registration business is?
For one faction. No one complains as vocally about the Rheinland Military's "absolutely no battleships" policy, I haven't heard any complaints about the Corsair registration in a while (and I believe the OPG were enforcing that one), and people seemed to shut up pretty quick about the Liberty Navy one.
As far as I can tell, the only one that gets any complaints is the Outcast one. Which is a case of "we're ****ed either way", since without it we've got enough capital ships to build a solid freaking wall around Malta (and Corsairs rightly complaining about getting raided by too many capitals), and with it we've got people whining about RP being trampled.
Would you (from here on out, "you" means people in general, not you specifically) be happy if we copied the Rheinland Military one word-for word, only making a few substitutions to add the appropriate words? No, we'd get complaints about that too - probably for no other reason than that we copied one, whether it's one people agreed with or not.
Sorry for the minor derail, I'll duck back into the next forum now.
(for the record, I did agree with the criticisms about charging money for it, but that has been removed for a while now IIRC)
![[Image: Tenacity.gif]](https://sig.grumpybumpers.com/host/Tenacity.gif)
