[quote name='Lobster' date='Mar 23 2011, 09:05 PM' post='1359850']
That's one of the problems, they wouldn't have much to shoot PvPwise. and while it isnt a major PvP faction, everyone (olozoners) needs something to shoot to make things fun.. usually..
So far, they would have the Libertonians and Nomads (wilde too) (which a universally hated.) Any other ideas as to what these new avenues would open up?
Perhaps resume some form of piracy?
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VF already shoots LN & Nomads & Wilds. Especially Wilds & Nomads, since VF's allied to the Order.
[quote name='Blodo' date='Mar 23 2011, 09:07 PM' post='1359855']
Not much really. I would rather propose the Bundschuh focus on Sigma-13 more. It's the area where there are no Hessians, and they can try and shoot GMG + all the traders with ore heading to Kusari.
EDIT: In response to the two posts previous to this one: It would need a big shift in Bundschuh RP lore wise. Right now the Bundschuh are pro-democracy, anti-government. Something really drastic (and probably unlikely) would need to happen that would probably need to be incorporated to the mod lore.
[/quote]
Unfortunately there's no real RP excuse to shoot GMG at the moment. We don't need it, we don't care about it.
Only if VF takes up nationalism approach, offered by Alec - then VF'll go on with revanchism
[quote name='Vrabcek' date='Mar 23 2011, 09:14 PM' post='1359874']
The Idea is good and the Bundschuh faction has potential.
As Jarl stated, what would we do....Thats the problem, becouse all Rheinland unlawfuls are kind of buddies. Only Rheinland enemies I could imagine would be the unioners, who allied some times with the corsairs, who are a big enemy to the bundschuh.
The problem might be also that the Bundschuh are allies with the Red Hessians. that alliance is lore based and Im not sure whether we could break it somehow. There is just one point we dont like about the hessians, its the SCRA. The Volksfront had just one encounter with a SCRA and it didnt end well.
As far for the house trading factions...Im not sure what could we do about this point.
EDIT: wrote it when there were just 3 posts Q.Q
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I can't say VF's really pissy on Sairs...
[quote name='The Major' date='Mar 23 2011, 09:15 PM' post='1359880']
Right now they are, so were they a few hundred years ago, but the orientation of groups change along with their history and more importantly, leadership.
If a more nationalistic radical leader would step up, perhaps with a coup, he could continue with flying around with the Bundschuh name and tech, with a different alignment than which his predecessors followed.
Again, I could compare them to the Farmers Alliance. They are following similar ideas are tolerated by the government, since they are of a centralized, traditionalist / nationalist affiliation too. The Rheinland government is nationalistic too, and it's more likely for them to tolerate nationalist radicalism than anarchist / socialist / communist radicalism which is going on in Rheinland already, expressed by pretty much every single group.
Key change would be the Bundschuh gaining the status of a semi-lawful faction.
[/quote]
Unfortunately unlike FA, VF isn't sponsored by one big company. And VF is purist faction, unlike FA, which contains a lot of corrupted elements (that's why it's puppet of Samura).
[quote name='The Major' date='Mar 23 2011, 09:20 PM' post='1359897']
If we take the nationalist radical approach...
[quote name='Primitive' date='Mar 23 2011, 09:31 PM' post='1359932']
I'll be honest, if you do this you'll destroy last "freedom fighting" faction that actually looks like one.
VF has problem cause no one plays, same as half of other factions, if 10 pvp whores were in VF they would get more members. So all this ideas aren't going anywhere, leave it as it is and join if you like what they represent.
[/quote]
Unfortunately majority of "pvpwhores" need OP or at least decent guns, otherwise pvp fails. We don't really have anything efficient on hand (Protectors, Reapers, Death Hands, Lugers, Destroyers, Natters). Yes, we have Natters and Hessian ships, but then we're nothing but bunch of other Hessians.
VF fights against the Rheinland gouverment (RM, RFP) and "aristocrats".
RHA fights against the Rheinland gouverment (RM, RFP), Corsairs, Kruger and DHC.
LWB/AGS-L fights against Synth food and ALG.
Unioners/AGS-U fights against RepEx and "foreign entities".
' Wrote:For my RP apprehension, I try to summarize:
VF fights against the Rheinland gouverment (RM, RFP) and "aristocrats".
RHA fights against the Rheinland gouverment (RM, RFP), Corsairs, Kruger and DHC.
LWB/AGS-L fights against Synth food and ALG.
Unioners/AGS-U fights against RepEx and "foreign entities".
Am I right so far?
Or did something changed?
Who they fight is not really important, it's who they are that is.
Bundies are scholars and others who wish to create a change in Rheinland through pacific means.
Hessians are oppressed miners, fighting against Slavery and for better work conditions as a first goal, and replacing the government as a secondary role. As of Vanilla, though, they were becoming more and more common pirates.
LWB are rural workers who fight to keep their home theirs and to fight off the growing influence of Synth Paste, but not truly interested/able in replacing the government.
Unioners are industrial workers who have lost their roots from their sight, but still keeps up an image of freedom fighters by claiming they mostly fight evil industrialist corporations, and not so interested in replacing the government at this point.
' Wrote:Rheinland, at its base, is a democracy. Well, it claims itself to be one. It simply is very right wing. The Bundies are more of a left-wing movement than people claiming democracy. Or else they wouldn't have existed in the first place, since the Bundies begun as a political party before getting outlawed.
Liberty is also democratic, the point however is more, how democratic is it really? The fact that a political party got outlawed is a sign of false democracy, at least in the eyes of some. But yes, you are perhaps right and I'd like a more vanilla-like Bundschuh personally as well. Diplomatically seen that would also give some interesting stuff I think. For example these three factions are all from different houses, yet are all on friendly terms with eachother: Hellfire Legion, Mollies and the Blood Dragons (As can be seen from the fact that the HF flies a Scylla, the Iblis, given by the mollies)
A more idealistic and 'honest' Bundschuh would fit in there as well, I think. But meh, then again, I just joined the VF yesterday, and am still learning a bit about the Bundschuh. *shrugs*
Look at the Hellfire Legion. They're the Liberty version of the Bundschuh. They don't attack traders, or kill civilians. They just want to change the goverment and political state.
I say, make them a tight-knit millitary, that strikes at the heart of the Millitary!
And they should stay unlawful.
How would they fight against the Kanzler, if the police don't shoot them?
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Look at the Hellfire Legion. They're the Liberty version of the Bundschuh. They don't attack traders, or kill civilians. They just want to change the goverment and political state.
I say, make them a tight-knit millitary, that strikes at the heart of the Millitary!
And they should stay unlawful.
How would they fight against the Kanzler, if the police don't shoot them?
The Bundies aren't violent at heart. They may have a defense force (Such as the Volksfront), but they do not look for a fight. They are considered unlawfuls not because they are criminals, but political criminals. Their political party was banned for not fitting with the views of Rheinland. Should they have disbanded, it would have ended there without further consequences. But they went underground and are now attempting to get people to their cause. They believe more in the might of infiltration, political statements and networking, Vanilla wise.
That doesn't mean they won't go down without a fight, though.
The problem with the Rheinland unlawfuls, as already mentioned, is that they are very homogeneous and similar to each other.
Red Hessians are former Daumann/Kruger miners, LWB are former farmers, Unioners are former Republican workers. All of those have rebelled against the lawful authorities (for better salaries or because they lost their jobs) and they are mainly leftists. The same time Bundschuh are also leftists (but educated people) who want to overthrow the government.
So my idea is to disrupt this homogeneity by making the Bundschuh an extreme right wing party in the Bundestag. Volksfront will be their informal military branch which will execute specific tasks.
Destruction of all leftists because they are considered as a danger to the State and to the Kanzler.
Supporting a State-centered economy
Terrorism on Libertonian corporations and brutal war on their forces
A limited piracy on Bretonian (mostly) / Kusarian shipments in order to have the means to support both the Volksfront but also the Bundschuh Partei
Limited smuggling for the above reason but with accomodities which are not very harmful to Rheinland economy (smuggling is always harmful for an economy, but what I want to say is that Cardamine, Blood Diamonds, etc create many more problems than a Gaian Wildlife shipment)
Synopsis: Their are not outlaws like Xenos and they don't engage Rheinland Lawfuls (unless they think there is a leftist or a traitor withing the ranks). Also, they are not xenophobic and they can create some relations with other groups. On the other hand, they are a political party and not mafia like Hogosha. Also, they are much more nationalist than Hogosha.
PS. Probably Major has the exact thing in mind, I just developed it a little more. Rheinland is already nationalist, it makes in-RP sense to have some people who actively support it but using "unusual" methods.
Well, I'd not like this to happen, since on practice VF'll simply become Hogosha. What's even worse, you offer to establish long time RP for the bundschuh, coming at least for fifty years? It'll ruin all RP created by the VF before, but well.. Unless you mean such change could occur within one year, what I find rather hard.
If we changed pre-Nomad War lore, why not to make Bundies conservative monarchists?
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