Yep, it's up to KNF and KSP and the Kusari government...in role play...on whether or not to do anything about the station.
The thing is, the player in the OP is not willing to do anything "in role play" regarding his predicament. He's already stated that he's not willing to do so, that he feels he's above having to RP for a solution, and that he just wants his situation fixed because that's what he wants.
He hasn't contacted the Hogosha, nor has he contacted KNF or the Kusari government and has said he has no intent to do so.
Thus, the base situation as it presently exists is solely on the shoulders of that individual making the OORP rant about it. The Kusari government won't be doing anything, not because of "powergaming" but because it has not received any complaints inRP. Hogosha won't be doing anything about it, not for reasons of dislike of this individual, but because the player refuses to role play on a role play server to resolve his role play issue.
There is no need to have his ship moved by an admin simply because the player refuses to RP with the government or the base owners.
Again, the issue is no different from an NPC base being red to a player ship. Rheinland players have to deal with Rippongi shooting at them because of rephacks dealing with IC. Same issue with Junker ships in Leeds as stated before (as well as others who may not be repped to Exiles). Talbot has been shooting at its defenders as much as the Corsair attackers lately. In other words, it happens all over the place with both player built and NPC bases and this is no different from any other player dealing with a base they have a bad reputation towards.
* Fix the rep of the ship in question and it will be fine.
* Role play with the station owners for a solution.
* If neither of those are acceptable to the player, then go around the station.
well cant it be expected for kusari authorities to think for themselves, with all due respect?
i think you are right that admin involvement and so on is totally overkill, and that bases guarding jh's, stations and planets should be allowed to shoot hostiles. I like that.
But in this case it just seems so ridiculous, really - even more so that KNF/KSP haven't done a thing about it (they actually defend the base - or at least they did last time I was there pewing at it).
kusari has always had huge problems attracting and keeping activity, and the xenophobic lore doesn't make that easier. But in my view for the years I played here, the Kusari players have done their utmost to make sure Kusari is the one house nobody will ever visit nor make a character for. That's sad - xenophobia could be played out in more refined ways.
(12-31-2012, 02:24 PM)Anaximander Wrote: well cant it be expected for kusari authorities to think for themselves, with all due respect?
*****
But in this case it just seems so ridiculous, really - even more so that KNF/KSP haven't done a thing about it (they actually defend the base - or at least they did last time I was there pewing at it).
Kusari and Rheinland have very good relations with each other while there are RP issues between Rheinland and Interspace Commerce. Thus many Rheinland ships are red to IC the same as IC is red to most of Rheinland. THere is an IC base outside planet New Tokyo that shoots at the Rheinland ships going past it. Likewise the same for Rheinland ships passing planet New London thanks to Waterloo station, another IC base.
The point being here that some bases are red to players of particular factions. They can fix the reputation usually but in some cases they cannot due to rephacks. I don't see anyone from Rheinland complaining to the Kusari or Bretonian governments about IC bases shooting them. Main reason why is they recognize the RP and rephacks and try to avoid beng in range of the guns of those bases.
Why should it be different just because a base in the same situation is player owned? If it is, then I suppose Samura could petition King's Cross not to shoot at their ships on the way to Rheinland after dropping off supplies at Exile bases, but we all know that's not going to happen. Likewise, if I remember correctly there was a dispute about an LSF base not allowing LN ID'd ships past their base blockading a jump gate. I believe that was settled via role play with each other.
What we have here is a situation faced by many players every single day with both player owned and long existing NPC bases. The only difference in this case is one individual who refuses to role play for his solution.
that base is painful - and somehow it started shooting my neutral-to-hogosha-since-2008 trader ship during a lag storm. i died quite a way down the trade lane.
this made me think: player bases are ships, essentially, right? and if other players can see reputation bug, do player bases see reputation bug?
could this be viewed as the exploitation of a bug if cargo released by the destruction of a bugged-reputation ship is collected by the owners of a base?
should bases be limited to hostile-unless-provoked, rather than red= dead?
I didnt mean the IC base, all that is fine. I only meant the hog base shooting all the friendly traders delivering precious supplies for Planet New Tokyo and thereby helping Kusari economy thrive. It boggles the mind that KSP/KSN is all fine about that.
Also there is a major difference in the defences of player built bases and regular bases. KSP/KSN is essentially allowing a stationary hogosha battleship (that is very difficult to kill) right outside the capital planet.
There are a few options for the base defenses yes. Quite frankly, the Hogosha base provides more "interaction free" methods of becoming neutral to it than many other bases. The base is set to Hogosha IFF, so any hogosha bribe or missions can fix it up right away.
My own base on the other hand is set far more strictly. I don't want someone supplying Corsairs to be able to just grab a Molly bribe at Trafalgar or the Hood and waltz on through with their cargoes of supplies.
Even Molly indies get their ID's and IFF scanned before their ship being made green to the base. That's a well established procedure for many months now and the base has had far less QQ than Itabashi. On second thought, yeah there were a couple of threads about it too, but no calls on forced admin removal or admin relocating of ships to stations on the other side of he jump hole.
The situation at Itabashi is the exact same situation faced regarding *any* NPC base. The one difference is that you can role play with the owners for a solution if you can't get a bribe to fix the reputation. That presents *more* choices than with an NPC base.
The only problem that exists here is that the OP is unwilling to bribe or role play with the base owners. That his his choice of course, and making that choice with an NPC base will have him still be getting shot at by that base.
Thus, is it any surprise that making that same choice regarding a player base has the same effect?
1) the polices' role is to maintain freedom and stability - they deal with day to day piracy and their authority extends up to a point where their power becomes insufficient or their local authority does not cover an involvement.
the police is often in DIREKT contact with the civilians and kind of relies on civlians to call them for help. - they DO however act on their own when an obvious involvement happens.
2) the militaries duty is to maintain national security and stability. they spot national disruptions and usually act on their own without being directly called in by civilians.
so what happened?
- a station popped up that poses a threat to civilian, lawful trade
- such a station is usually considered too much for the police to deal with
- it all happens in CLEAR sight of the authorities, even more .. it happens in clear sight of a capital planet, so we MUST assume that the KNF knows about it ( the hit on the reputation for the KNF NOT knowing might be greater than anything else - incompetence is not viewed as a virtue in kusari )
what RPs are possible:
- the KNF does nothing, claiming that they have not been called by the civilians .... ---> thats clear incompetence
- the KNF acts ( late ), claiming it took them a while to prepare to ambush that base. questions WILL be asked why they even allowed the contruction though.
- the KNF does NOT act at all... at which point the public press might publicly ask for the reasons why the KNF does not act; questions that might be uncomfortable and might hit the future trade with kusari ( which kusari still requires ) so much that the KNF might become a target of a public campaign.
all that does not quite require a civilian to report anything - but it does involve "players" to roleplay the "public" interest - and someone of the KNF to deal with it.
most of that is not particularly "bad" for the roleplay enviroment for disco - but it does show that factions and consequences are rather complex and a "deal with it" attitude is just the lazy way out.
yours is very very different (and so was the efl one in t31 which i liked and tried to defend but in vain), its not placed dead center in a busy lawful trader junction, in front of a capital lawful planet.
also why should lawful traders from well-respected corporations be forced to make dealings with hogosha dogs? It seems like one of those things where KNF/KSP should be mediators to ensure the traffic to their capital world isn't hindered, rather than forcing their business partners to get their hands dirty and deal with unlawfuls/quasi-lawfuls/semi-lawfuls/etc.
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