This is the same as saying "because we can". And this mentality brought ZA and all the associated incidents upon us. You know, "because we can" is not the same as "because we should".
if these vessels are available it means that the creators of this mod and admins, decided that the zoners can have them. if so, they will have them, no matter what we think about it, they will have them. especially groups such as ZA.
Indeed, they can have them and use them as they see fit. And of course take responsibility for their actions.
The problem comes when they want to have the toys without being responsible for them and they come whine ooRP on the forums for having a reaction to their actions what they don't like.
Well, in the Zoners' defense, everybody is our enemy, just not all the time. You can't just look at the politics of this week and say 'hm, well, there's no massive catastophe going on right now, so they don't need caps, right? Logic!'
Granted, having these ships made more sense when the Zoners were a unified faction under the flag of the Zoner Council (And a few of us tried, unsuccessfully, to persuade the leaders of OSI that re-forming it is a good idea.) This is the biggest problem, both in the canon and practically. Our 'official factions' do not represent the Zoners. One's a corporation, the other's a religious sect. It would be like if DSE was leading the Liberty Navy.
OSI in particular has very little regard for other Zoners, as evidenced by that bloody base in Dublin they helped build.
This lack of centralized leadership is the cause of all the Zoners' problems. There's no one guiding the indies, so they all do their own thing. Not that I'd want them actually having faction-rights command over said indies, but it'd be nice if there was an entity to tell them 'these are the politics of the day, we'd appreciate it if you went and did X'.
Even the ID is listless; It basically boils down to 'yup. You're a.... thing...' And maybe you might get away with participating in a fight, if no one reports you, since you're technically not really supposed to do anything but sit around in your giant tub.
I'll be honest, I haven't played for a while (mostly because of these issues) and I have little clue what's been going on lately aside from 'ZA is up to wacky antics'. Well, at least they're doing something... You guys seem to be upset that they're doing the wrong thing. When we can all agree on what the right thing is, someone please let me know. Are we a Sirius-spanning burgeoning empire, with resources rivaling a house? Or are we a loosely-associated assemblage of somewhat nomadic tribes, each trying to scrape out an existence in the various corners of Sirius? When I started on Disco and I was so excited about making a capship captain, it was the former. Lately, it looks more like the latter. If it's the latter, then yeah, you can go ahead and take away all of our toys, since there'd be no basis for us to have them. Of course, that'd be completely nerfing us, but hey, it's not like it's -your- beloved faction.
Well its not just the zoners who need their cap ships removed. If they do retcon capships for zoners then they should do it for a couple of other factions too. (Which does look like a faction or two I am in will have them removed)
The other choice is that the zoners can keep their toys but with massively reduced weaponry and perhaps even some armor. These inRP changes can then be reflected back in the ships usage as a Colonization, exploration, transportation and mini biodome set ups. Sorta how (star trek example coming) Voyager, Enterprise (NX-1 and D/E) Had hydroponic bays in them.
They can set up these big ships to act as mobile freeports inRP which is largely what most Zoners say is their justification for holding one. Id advocate removing heavy and primary turrets but perhaps buffing the amount of secondary turrets so that it isnt overly susceptible to snubs.
(06-06-2013, 01:58 PM)Trogdor Wrote: Our 'official factions' do not represent the Zoners. One's a corporation, the other's a religious sect.
And one is the actual official faction using the Zoner ID itself and is currently residing in Omicron-74. Don't forget the Phoenix, they have their official status granted. In my opinion they could be your "centralized leadership" if such would exist in a community such as of the Zoners.
Well its not just the zoners who need their cap ships removed. If they do retcon capships for zoners then they should do it for a couple of other factions too. (Which does look like a faction or two I am in will have them removed)
The other choice is that the zoners can keep their toys but with massively reduced weaponry and perhaps even some armor. These inRP changes can then be reflected back in the ships usage as a Colonization, exploration, transportation and mini biodome set ups. Sorta how (star trek example coming) Voyager, Enterprise (NX-1 and D/E) Had hydroponic bays in them.
They can set up these big ships to act as mobile freeports inRP which is largely what most Zoners say is their justification for holding one. Id advocate removing heavy and primary turrets but perhaps buffing the amount of secondary turrets so that it isnt overly susceptible to snubs.
Okay... Let's ignore the fact that all of those star trek ships were also equipped for combat with other capital ships.
What, exactly, do you suppose we -do- with those combat-nerfed ships? If there was a gameplay mechanic that rewarded exploring, that'd be one thing, but there isn't, so from my perspective it sounds like you'd have us do a whole lot of nothing.
I'm not even sure why you want our ships to have their combat capabilities reduced. From what I remember, most of us are pretty bad, due to the fact that we hardly ever fight.
As for Phoenix.. yeah, I haven't played in a few months, but from what I remember of back then, they weren't good for us either.
Well its not just the zoners who need their cap ships removed. If they do retcon capships for zoners then they should do it for a couple of other factions too. (Which does look like a faction or two I am in will have them removed)
The other choice is that the zoners can keep their toys but with massively reduced weaponry and perhaps even some armor. These inRP changes can then be reflected back in the ships usage as a Colonization, exploration, transportation and mini biodome set ups. Sorta how (star trek example coming) Voyager, Enterprise (NX-1 and D/E) Had hydroponic bays in them.
They can set up these big ships to act as mobile freeports inRP which is largely what most Zoners say is their justification for holding one. Id advocate removing heavy and primary turrets but perhaps buffing the amount of secondary turrets so that it isnt overly susceptible to snubs.
Okay... Let's ignore the fact that all of those star trek ships were also equipped for combat with other capital ships.
What, exactly, do you suppose we -do- with those combat-nerfed ships? If there was a gameplay mechanic that rewarded exploring, that'd be one thing, but there isn't, so from my perspective it sounds like you'd have us do a whole lot of nothing.
I'm not even sure why you want our ships to have their combat capabilities reduced. From what I remember, most of us are pretty bad, due to the fact that we hardly ever fight.
As for Phoenix.. yeah, I haven't played in a few months, but from what I remember of back then, they weren't good for us either.
The only combat ship the federation ever made was the Defiant and prometheus class. You could possibly classify the enterprise E as one too since it was fairly big.
If you compare the starfleet ships to the ships the Klingons, Cardassians, Romulans, Jem'hadar ships then you will find most of them significantly outclassed and out gunned similar sized federation ships. Even the enterprise D at the time could barely hold its own against Klingon / Romulan ships. (for example the warbird and negh'var)
Anyway im not basing these nerfs on gameplay decisions. If the admins wanted everyone to have 'fun' and no restrictions they would not have an ID setup or do ship / gun balancing. This is a Lore based nerf / removal as inRP the zoners do not have the manpower or building capabilities to produce these huge war vessels. The fact that I am only suggesting weapon nerfs is just me trying to be leniant.
I think that you guys think that the zoners dont have enemys and have nothing to do but if you read the history of the zoners carful you see that they have enemies and have a role in sirius like
exploring and trading to the Edge worlds ( following the wiki it says: These systems are a home to many of the most powerful factions and entities in Sirius, making them a dangerous place to travel through for freelancers and core world travellers. ( http://www.discoverygc.com/wiki/Edge_Worlds)
they have war with the nomads and the wilde that are located in the systems where they trade through
they are also the ally of the order and GMG so they are allowed to help them in their fight
and if you read the last sentence of the history there stand
It seems that Sirius is subjected to strong emotions that today's Zoners cannot ignore, but they are well prepared to face new challenges.
so in the furture they could have war with factions maybe gallia......
if these things not happen or the factions do other things ingame is something else but not a reason to change their fleet
so they had to and still have to fight for their neutral status and if that change they need that ships
and probably you start asking these questions because the actions of the ZA/ OSI/ Phoenix so then you should judge them and not all zoners because there also zoners that dont act like them but do what zoners should do
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