New Rheinland War Idea

[Wesker]

Also Rheinland has little to no resources

This quote shows that either you lack basic RP background information about the house where you play, or you deliberately post misleading information because it suits your agenda. I am not sure what is worse.

So just tl;dr for your:
Rheinland has one of the biggest (if not the biggest) mining and heavy machinery industry in the whole Sirius at this moment and huge ore fields available in it´s territory (mind you that there are not only fields where you can really mine in game, there are also fields which are mentioned on infocards but for gameplay and balance reasons are not mineable).

I guess how I defined "resources" was unclear.

Yes there are lots of mining fields in Rheinland, the bulk of them being in dresden and omega-11 and omega-7. The ones in Omega-11 and dresden are contested thanks to the Hessians. The ones in omega-7 are controlled and abundant yes. Daumann is the largest industrial juggernaut in sirius at this point (even tho most of their stuff is exported iirc but I could be wrong). But Rheinland lacks the funding and the manpower to put them to any use. RM's fleet is at an all time low as is the Rheinland economy.

In short, having potential resources and not being able to use them is about as good as having no resources at all. If you think I'm wrong here, then why doesn't RM have control over Dresden and O-11 completely?
That's where I'm coming from.

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[Shelco]

Well inRP resources and money do not equal ooRP possibilities, the fact that RHA has a jorm fleet of about 20 ships is also unrealistic inRP .
RM is simply inactive ooRPly.

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[Laura C.]

Then there was an illogical war with Liberty (laughable), the whole IC debacle and still, Rheinland is going strong. As I've said; hooray for Rheinland, it's a miracle.

A rather boring miracle.

I would like to remind you that Rhein-Lib war was likely the best long-term activity source the mod ever had.

Also, Disco lore and storyline development is full of illogical decision made both by devs and players. And also full of other "miracles". Like Bretonia somehow suddenly able to stop Gauls in Leeds despite they are cut and running out of resources. And do I have to mention Liberty? House which can wage two full-scale interhouse wars and facing Kusari fuel embargo at the same time, without getting single negative consequence from it.

Rheinland got beating several times in past years and it never brought significant positives, sometimes even negatives. Blowing up the gates to Liberty? Huge dev fail which was totally detrimental to gameplay. Hessian advance in Dresden, which was supposed to become a hot warzone? Never worked, almost nothing was happening there. Munich disaster? Yea, it started few interesting roleplays on forums but activity which it created ingame was minimal as well. Even direct connection to Sair space did not help, even unlawful bases in every Rheinland system don´t.

We keep spilling poop on Rheinland and it does not work. You know that quote about insanity when doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results, right?

So you should not be surprised when players devoted to play in Rheinland are sceptical when they see people shouting "lets beat Rheinland even more, let it collapse, it will be interesting and it will create great activity". So far it did not work at all (and not just in Rheinland, just look at the fail named Kusari civil war) so why it should now? Unlawfuls can raid New Berlin every day, it is not more than one or two systems from their staging bases. Yet they don´t do it, so why you think they will start with it then?

There are players, including me, which would not mind -some- more troubles in Rheinland, but it should be worth it. If it will be finally good activity source, why not. But all I see here is once again the old "lets make Rheinland suffer from something and wait if it will work" attitude. Is this really the only type of idea community and devs can come with?

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On a ragebreak. Or ragequit. Time will tell.

[Laura C.]

RM's fleet is at an all time low as is the Rheinland economy.

Economy is in trouble, but military? Rheinland was not defeated or crushed in war with Liberty. It was ended because neither side could won without risking to lose another front (Liberty had Gallia knocking on them, Rheinland Hessians and Corsairs troubles). When the war was ended, it actually allowed Rheinland to strengthen forces in it´s territory because they could left the borders with Liberty. So why the fleet would be at all time low?

In short, having potential resources and not being able to use them is about as good as having no resources at all. If you think I'm wrong here, then why doesn't RM have control over Dresden and O-11 completely?

Because these decisions are made solely from gameplay point of view, not roleplay one. To create good activity hotspot, both sides are kept in Omega-11. And Dresden advance was given to Hessians because it was supposed to be warzone which was supposed to replace the Liberty border and give RM players good massive battles again. Unfortunately it never worked. Same applies even to why Hessians can have any caps. It was not because someone (devs) sat down and said "look, inRP Hessians have resources to have caps now, lets give them some". Only reason why it happened was to balance it with RM and Sairs and to help make Hessians more appealing for players.

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On a ragebreak. Or ragequit. Time will tell.

[Operator]

EDIT: Why Rheinland? They have their own problems with Hessians. Besides, there's four more homes out there with actual reasons for the war. For an example, Kusari might be used by Gallia as the war tool against Liberty. That would be more interesting and could give Kusari a bit of activity.

[Laura C.]

Why the ech do you want the Rheinland-Liberty war again? Why not Kusari-Liberty war? It would be way more exciting inRP and Kusari could get more activity.

Nobody proposed here to revive Rhein-Liberty war as far as I noticed, where did you see it?

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On a ragebreak. Or ragequit. Time will tell.

[Operator]

Why the ech do you want the Rheinland-Liberty war again? Why not Kusari-Liberty war? It would be way more exciting inRP and Kusari could get more activity.

Nobody proposed here to revive Rhein-Liberty war as far as I noticed, where did you see it?

ohwait, thought it one of those "Make Rhein-Lib war again" threads

[Strichev]

Then there was an illogical war with Liberty (laughable), the whole IC debacle and still, Rheinland is going strong. As I've said; hooray for Rheinland, it's a miracle.

A rather boring miracle.

I would like to remind you that Rhein-Lib war was likely the best long-term activity source the mod ever had.

And do I have to mention Liberty? House which can wage two full-scale interhouse wars and facing Kusari fuel embargo at the same time, without getting single negative consequence from it.

Rheinland got beating several times in past years and it never brought significant positives, sometimes even negatives. Blowing up the gates to Liberty? Huge dev fail which was totally detrimental to gameplay. Hessian advance in Dresden, which was supposed to become a hot warzone? Never worked, almost nothing was happening there. Munich disaster? Yea, it started few interesting roleplays on forums but activity which it created ingame was minimal as well. Even direct connection to Sair space did not help, even unlawful bases in every Rheinland system don´t.

We keep spilling poop on Rheinland and it does not work. You know that quote about insanity when doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results, right?


There are players, including me, which would not mind -some- more troubles in Rheinland, but it should be worth it. If it will be finally good activity source, why not. But all I see here is once again the old "lets make Rheinland suffer from something and wait if it will work" attitude.

You do have a point there. Liberty should get shafted too. Sirius News: H-Fuel crisis hits Liberty, prices going into orbit as H-Fuel shock stomps over the economy

Indeed, the Liberty-Rheinalnd war was a great activity source due to it involving Liberty. Rheinland leeched activity off Liberty; an activity IV or an umbilical cord of sorts. And I wouldn't say that blowing up the gates was a splash of poop as you put it. It killed activity as it was just a half measure. Having Liberty occupy New Berlin and install a puppet government with a few lib dreds parked in orbit would count as stomping Rheinland. RM could then launch insurgent raids, people could RP collaborationist agendas while the commies could strive for a revolution. And Rheinland could still feed on Liberty activity.

Dresden was half baked. Everything is done half way.

Anyhow, I guess we all just need to log (or re-create in my case) our Rheinland chars and cook up some trouble, more provocative, the better.

[Wesker]

Economy is in trouble, but military? Rheinland was not defeated or crushed in war with Liberty. It was ended because neither side could won without risking to lose another front (Liberty had Gallia knocking on them, Rheinland Hessians and Corsairs troubles). When the war was ended, it actually allowed Rheinland to strengthen forces in it´s territory because they could left the borders with Liberty. So why the fleet would be at all time low?

Rheinland wasn't defeated but it was crippled, also its been a little over a year since the war ended. Which speaking inrp wise I don't (think) is enough time to rebuild what they had. If Rheinland was as strong as it was before the war I think they'd have the power to expand into the Omegas. Given beforehand Rheinland was able to push all the way to New London when they were at war with Bretonia from what I herd (but that was before I started playing).

Because these decisions are made solely from gameplay point of view, not roleplay one. To create good activity hotspot, both sides are kept in Omega-11. And Dresden advance was given to Hessians because it was supposed to be warzone which was supposed to replace the Liberty border and give RM players good massive battles again.

Uh I'm confused now, I know SOME decisions are made for gameplay purposes, but since when was the Hessian advance or Omega-11 being contested ever done for gameplay purposes? As far as I know that was the way it was since Vanilla, RHA had a foothold in Omega-11 and Dresden for a very long time. Leipzig was abandoned by Daumann because the nearby fields were pretty much completely consumed. Now actually I think the infocard on Bautzen is saying the station is getting decommissioned.

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[Yber]

However, the fact is that the current situation does not promote diversity in RP and PVP encounters. A weak Rheinland would be much more interesting and dynamic. Sure, this is subjective, but that's the point.

Both views on the state of the house have their foundations in in-game lore. One of Vanilla and the other after the addition of random "ore bonanza" systems. All added in an effort to create a house capable of waging Krieg on all fronts.

Vanilla version didn't point at a prosperous Rheinland. They couldn't produce superconductors, they couldn't keep their lanes safe, the only BS was falling apart and Dresden's ore field running low. The house was dependent on GMG for fuel, Liberty for trade lane parts and a market for raw materials.

A failed state seemed just as likely as an economic miracle we have today.

Then there was an illogical war with Liberty (laughable), the whole IC debacle and still, Rheinland is going strong. As I've said; hooray for Rheinland, it's a miracle.

A rather boring miracle.

Tell me more about how making a nation an InRP punching bag gives you an incentive to pvp or roleplay in it. Because Kusari is toootally active, yeah.

I'm not even going to comment on the rest. If you want to apply vanilla lore to Rheinland (which isn't even like that but whatever) then to do so all houses.

No, you're not making Rheinland a delusional land of lossers.

I'm also going to avoid commenting on most of the completely off the mark claims about Rheinland economical and industrial lore, which seem to be based off of "opinions". Rheinland, as explained by Laura, has the most capable industry in Sirius and the machinery to push for it. The only handicap that it faces now is the high percentage of jobless people due to the previous economy colapse during the Liberty war because hurr durr no trade, which isn't a thing anymore (the trade has been resumed and the relations with Bretonia and Core have been improved). The so called revolution (which has nowhere near as many resources as the lawful Rheinland has, nowhere near as much military power and nowhere near as much support as the Rheinwehr despite Wesker's missleaded statement) has oorply gained popularity, sure. That's about it. I invite everyone to read our roleplay and event threads about Operation MRGA, which we will hopefully resume soon.

Lastly and just so the most biased antigerman players amongst you can understand: The Bundestag notified several months ago several changes in the import and export taxes, essentially decreasing the purchase and sale taxes in Rheinland and compensating for them with profit taxes. This translates on 1000kg of metal being cheaper to buy and sell, but having a greater % of the net profit of the company going to the state in the form of taxes.

This is an economical measure used inRL to increase the volume of imports and exports in a growing economy and reduce unemployment. As for who are the customers of this increasing economy:

The Core (for obvious expansion reasons).
Liberty (which purchases the many war materials produced in Rheinland such as Engines or Hull segments).
Bretonia (which has had the line of supplies cut off by Gallia and needs to supply from somewhere).

And of course any other minor parties.

Rheinland has more than enough industrial power and companies to keep it going. The economy is healing and thanks to the measures taken and the diplomacy changes the unemployment (which is the current major concern) is greatly reduced, thus greatly reducing the popular unease and taking from the impact of the rebellion and groups such as LWD.

Yes, Rheinland is recovering. Yes, Rheinland is stabilizing. Yes, Rheinland still has 7 (maybe it was 8, would have to review) krieg-capable fleets. No, whatever rumours spread through Skype about Rheinland aren't true. These are mostly created by people with an uneducated understanding of both the current roleplay situation and general economy, which is nothing to be ashamed of but should be contemplated as nothing more than missinformation.

I'll let Divine correct me if anything I said wasn't correct though.

Oh god I'm becoming an actual faction leader.

Uh I'm confused now, I know SOME decisions are made for gameplay purposes, but since when was the Hessian advance or Omega-11 being contested ever done for gameplay purposes? As far as I know that was the way it was since Vanilla, RHA had a foothold in Omega-11 and Dresden for a very long time. Leipzig was abandoned by Daumann because the nearby fields were pretty much completely consumed. Now actually I think the infocard on Bautzen is saying the station is getting decommissioned.

Yes, the ore fields in Dresden are depleted and the base was being dismantled just as the MRGA events were taking place (which was another reason for RM to push in as I told you in skype at some point). And yes, Leipzig was dismantled completely except for the nuclear reactors that were too big to move away and -I believe- were sabotaged and left behind.

Rheinland wasn't defeated but it was crippled, also its been a little over a year since the war ended. Which speaking inrp wise I don't (think) is enough time to rebuild what they had. If Rheinland was as strong as it was before the war I think they'd have the power to expand into the Omegas. Given beforehand Rheinland was able to push all the way to New London when they were at war with Bretonia from what I herd (but that was before I started playing).

Refering to the above, Rheinland still has at least 7 fully functional fleets, 1 of which was moved to Dresden during the MRGA events. The Bretonia thing was a small conflict between eachother that didn't make any sense and that made both nations lose 1 base. Yes, Rheinland is currently relatively weak but is still greatly stronger in terms of military than both Bretonia and Kusari. The possibility of Rheinland expanding into the Omegas has always been shut down by admins, both during the Zoner-Core stuff and in the last 2 faction-player requests that I've made and were rejected and/or ignored along any additional changes I attempted to bring up. And to the unspoken statement: no, RHA combined hasn't got nearly the strenght to fight in the open field against a single Rheinland fleet. InRP that is. However, the Rheinwehr can't reasonably push into the Omegas due to the guerrilla scenarios in which RHA would stall the advance completely. I personally wouldn't want RM to take Omega 11 completely because that'd pretty much kill RHA ingame.

Gallia and Rheinland are at similar levels of military strength. Conditions of life in both are in slow decay.

Liberty is, of course, the strongest house.

I'm just going to flat out ignore this. You're completely ignorant of everything and anything about Discovery to a point where it's offensive given your tone.