Should Traders in RP, use Jump Holes?

[SigCorps]

I voted other.

Seems to me, like many have said, the house Corps would not use jump holes. They really would not know about most of them. There may be a few that would be know...or obvious.

Indies, Zoners, Junkers...well considering most of these folks deal with the outer systems, where jump gates and trade lanes do not exist, yeah they could and would all use them if they were advantageous. Yeah by now Ageria's whole jump holes are unstable is bunk.

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Formerly Sam Nichols, creator of OSI

[Baltar]

I think if the route can be done using lanes, then they shouldn't use jump holes.

If the route has to use a known jump hole or two, like the Texas-Minnesota one, then it should be ok to use them. My trader supplies the front lines of the Rheinland/Liberty war, which requires me to use jump holes to get to the BS Concord in New Hampshire.

Ah ... then we should hear less complaints from traders about pirates who haunt you on your runs that take you away from the trade lanes. You leave the beaten path ... you have no excuse nor complaint. If you are a Liberty trader ... best not be using Rheinland trade lanes ... they have different codes ... as do their jump gates. I'd expect them to be locked down to non-Rheinlanders.

My position on Jumpholes as natural objects: Insane.

Sure, phase alignment. There was a question about one or two holes. We've no idea how long a hole is phase aligned for. Perhaps a couple years at a time? Maybe this would explain them being moved around systems, for example?

I imagine, and I've no backing for this beyond the ridiculousness of the assumption of so many systems with natural wormholes, that the Jump hole network are a D'K construct. You think this is ridiculous, of course, as they had a gate system, and instructions for building such things in valhalla, but I deal with this idea by assuming that gates are a low tech or brute force substitute for holes, vinel records for cds. The supergate? Super is a key word there. Easier to build a huge low tech object to cover the great distance than the more elegant stellar needlepoint of the jumphole network.

Jump Holes may be unregulated, uncontrolled, but I imagine they're much better built, and more secure, when they're not shifting their alignment (and probably include safety measures there, as well, like, for example, failing to work when they don't work) than the crude subsitutes used by humanity, and now the nomads.

Lets also keep in mind that MOST jump holes lead you to close proximity with the unlawful elements of Sirius. So a trader using a jump hole puts his life into his own hands ... and the mercy of the pirate he encounters.

Speaking as a House corporation trader, I'm not going to NOT use jumpholes. They save time, and House corporations already get shafted enough.

Then the house corporate trader cannot complain when he's pirated ... and the police, navy, etc should look at said trader and say, "We told you to keep to the lanes ... but no ... you wouldn't listen. We don't have the resources to patrol EVERYWHERE. Stick to the lanes and we'll keep you safe. But if you leave them ... you're on your own."

Actually, There are systems that traders need to use to get to systems they are allowed to use. For Example, Minnesota and the KOF.

I would think that there would be SOME jump holes that corporations would OK for use, but a blanket OK on all of them seems a little far fetched.

Now I am going to respectfully disagree with the statement about the LPI traders. Lets look at the last word in LPI, Incorporated. A corporation. A corporation that also has manufacturing wing that the inhabitants of Huntsville and the Sugarland provide as labor. So why can't the LPI have its own trading wing? Supplies need to be taken from base to base, equipment shuffled around. It's not so far fetched.

As for the cops in liberty being supported by taxes, we aren't. The LPI is a corporation paid by the Liberty government to provide a police force.

In reality, the LPI has no set funding mechanism. I wished the LPI had a set amount of credits given to it every month to sustain it, but is doesn't. The credits needed to run the LPI come from it's members, and any
fines that are collected go to the LPI. I personally have donated in excess of 400 million and added a few ships out of my own pocket. Others have done the same.

Edit: From the LPI ID itself:

* Can trade and escort traders

Ah ... have you read the Pirate ID? The Pirate ID also says that he can trade. So ... when you encounter a pirate with cargo ... are you gonna leave him alone or open fire?

Glad you found your loophole ... Its SOOO fun to see a transport sporting a Trader ID and Liberty Police IFF flying about far from home (Sigma 13, etc). And to find an LPI ID on a transport? Check it again ... what ships does the LPI ID permit you to fly? Are there cargo space limitations on that ID?

See that 'Inc.' bit right there, that bit in the bold? That means 'Incorporated'. I suggest you get a dictionary.

Traders use jumpholes at their own risk. Coincidentally, in most cases they're less risky than tradelanes.

Yes ... found that loophole around police being traders ... congratulations ... now I know how serious you are about role play.

In role play ... you'd EXPECT traders to be in more danger when they leave the trade lanes. Just like in role play ...you'd EXPECT the lawful navy and police to be stronger than pirates. Make up your mind man ... are we gonna role play or are you just looking for whatever gives you the advantage?

Pirates are stronger when the trader leaves the trade lanes ... lawfuls are stronger when they are closer to the trade lanes where lawfuls can respond quickly.

[tansytansey]

Ageria Propaganda tells all lawfuls that Jump Holes are unsafe to use. I'd say it's reasonable that no lawful trader should be using them. However, since every single Guard system uses a Jump Hole, including Lawful Guard systems use Jump Holes it kind of ruins the 'mystique' around Jump Holes. 'Because it's faster' is no excuse, I don't use trade lanes or jump gates on my Pirate unless nessicary.

We should replace all the Jump Holes used by Lawful factions with Jump Gates, or at least add Jump Gates to those systems.

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[FooFighter]

Ageria Propaganda tells all lawfuls that Jump Holes are unsafe to use. I'd say it's reasonable that no lawful trader should be using them. However, since every single Guard system uses a Jump Hole, including Lawful Guard systems use Jump Holes it kind of ruins the 'mystique' around Jump Holes. 'Because it's faster' is no excuse, I don't use trade lanes or jump gates on my Pirate unless nessicary.

We should replace all the Jump Holes used by Lawful factions with Jump Gates, or at least add Jump Gates to those systems.

Absolutely /signed.

The problem however is, wouldn't making lawful traders using jumpholes ooRP lead to even more of the despised Zoner Guard Whales popping up? I'm all for this, but I think corporations should finally get an advantage over Zoners. I can see why slave trade and blockade running would be more profitable than lawful trading, but Zoners being richer than House corporations is just wrong.

[schlurbi]

How about modeling 'small' Jumpgates to the Guard Systems? Just not like you see the Alaska one from the Texas lane....

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"Who is it doing this synthetic type of alpha beta psychedelic funkin'?"

[Drake]

Then the house corporate trader cannot complain when he's pirated ... and the police, navy, etc should look at said trader and say, "We told you to keep to the lanes ... but no ... you wouldn't listen. We don't have the resources to patrol EVERYWHERE. Stick to the lanes and we'll keep you safe. But if you leave them ... you're on your own."

I don't complain. Of course, the trade lanes are often more dangerous than the jump holes...

[hack]

Ah ... have you read the Pirate ID? The Pirate ID also says that he can trade. So ... when you encounter a pirate with cargo ... are you gonna leave him alone or open fire?

Glad you found your loophole ... Its SOOO fun to see a transport sporting a Trader ID and Liberty Police IFF flying about far from home (Sigma 13, etc). And to find an LPI ID on a transport? Check it again ... what ships does the LPI ID permit you to fly? Are there cargo space limitations on that ID?
Yes ... found that loophole around police being traders ... congratulations ... now I know how serious you are about role play.

Loophole? Its on the ID. Check ALL of the Police and Military ID's. Didn't know that having something being permitted on a ID was a loophole. Also, according to canon, the LPI is a CORPORATION. The LPI police department is ONE division of the Corporation. How many Divisions does the LPI CORPORATION have now? I guess we are going to find out, you have inspired us to do some new things, many of which are already in motion and awaiting approval.

As for trading ships, Police and Military Factions are allowed to us up to 3000 Unit cargo ships. We can do something with that very nicely. Here is the link to the 3000 unit permissions: http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=39728

Here is the quote:

- Transport cargo capacity limit for all military and police factions, as well as their guard factions, rised from 1000 to 3000.

As for having a LPI id on our traders? I guess that would be legal too. Guess people will have to wait and find out.

Don't want the Police and Military trading? Lobby the ADMINS to give the Military and Police Factions a stipend every month to simulate the taxes that support them.

If not? Don't complain.

Pirates trading? Sure, they are allowed, check the ID. I assumed a lot of Pirates DO trade, at least to some degree.

It's nice to think outside of the box................

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Formerly known as LPI Police Chief Hull O'Brien.
Creator of Sgt. V. Price, 207th Precinct out of Chula Vista Station

[farmerman]

We should replace all the Jump Holes used by Lawful factions with Jump Gates, or at least add Jump Gates to those systems.

I think it would be neat if there could be both stable and unstable jump holes in the game. The stable ones having some kind of small device in orbit that helps keep it phase aligned. You know, for those times DSE is too busy to build a new gate, or the buyer wants to keep things a bit less obvious.

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Faction info links: Samura Heavy Industries : LWB : Watchers

[hack]

I think it would be neat if there could be both stable and unstable jump holes in the game. The stable ones having some kind of small device in orbit that helps keep it phase aligned. You know, for those times DSE is too busy to build a new gate, or the buyer wants to keep things a bit less obvious.

That sounds like an awesome idea....I wonder if it could be worked out that an unstable worm hole would randomly send you somewhere?

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Formerly known as LPI Police Chief Hull O'Brien.
Creator of Sgt. V. Price, 207th Precinct out of Chula Vista Station

[Benjamin]

The problem however is, wouldn't making lawful traders using jumpholes ooRP lead to even more of the despised Zoner Guard Whales popping up? I'm all for this, but I think corporations should finally get an advantage over Zoners. I can see why slave trade and blockade running would be more profitable than lawful trading, but Zoners being richer than House corporations is just wrong.

This is half of my reasoning.

The other half being the fact that it's basically just unrealistic for them not to. Nothing bad ever happens in jumpholes, pirates and zoners use them all the time. Corporations aren't just little sheep that do what they're told. It really wouldn't take long at all for them to start sending ships through jumpholes, realise it's fine, and then just start doing it. It's basically just silly to expect them not to.

I'm not saying to use the ones by pirate bases, obviously. But ones in the middle of nowhere are absolutely fine in my book.
I'm not a fan of promoting RP that goes in direct contradiction of gameplay. Since gameplay often makes sense. Pirates don't hang out in asteroid fields, because there's nothing to do there. They hang out on tradelanes, because they want to make money. That makes sense. And then we are supposed to ship down tradelanes because they are safe, and avoid asteroid fields because they are dangerous? Nah man, that's stupid. Corps became the massive powers they are today by exploring, pioneering, risk taking, etc etc. Not by doing what they are told.
So yeah, no way.

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