SHF- Super Heavy Fighters

[Dino]

A reminder that the subforum is called "Discovery Mod PvP Balance" so please keep the discussion on topic and restrain yourself from posting memes. Thank you.

[Antonio]

Now stop being so arrogant and accept the fact that giving you a toy that has to be ganked to be killed is not the solution to your inability.

If anyone lacks the ability it's you for thinking they can only be killed by ganks. No one said that, when Wesker said pile 5 people on them he described how groupfights work in Discovery - all pile on one target. As long as your side has enough members to compare it's not ganking, it's just utilizing the optimal groupfighting tactic. Your side is also focusing an enemy snub "5v1" at the same time. Groupfights occur much more often than duels outside of Connecticut which means VHFs still have a clear advantage. God forbid something challenges VHFs in something for a brief period, they must be the best against everything at all times.

If we want VHFs to be the absolute best in all scenarios then sure, all the VHF favoritism and your complaints are valid. What's the point in having other snub classes then? That's why I'd like to see more variety, nothing else. Side note - SHFs always countered VHFs in duels, it's only after the SNAC became useless that they started being used in combat because they didn't have to be afraid of getting instakilled as soon as 1 bomber showed up.

It's nothing but ignorance when someone's complaining about SHFs and only flies VHFs. There's other side of the coin, and once you learn how to fly something you also learn how to fly against it. But nah, refusing to adapt is one of the most common ways to nerf something through crying on the forums as we saw when SNAC was made useless.

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[Enkidu]

Now stop being so arrogant and accept the fact that giving you a toy that has to be ganked to be killed is not the solution to

If anyone lacks the ability it's you for thinking they can only be killed by ganks. No one said that, when Wesker said pile 5 people on them he described how groupfights work in Discovery - all pile on one target. As long as your side has enough members to compare it's not ganking, it's just utilizing the optimal groupfighting tactic. Your side is also focusing an enemy snub "5v1" at the same time. Groupfights occur much more often than duels outside of Connecticut which means VHFs still have a clear advantage. God forbid something challenges VHFs in something for a brief period, they must be the best against everything at all times.

I've revised my previous position but it definitely feels you're in the right here, Antonio.

It's actually not always the optimal group fighting tactic either. Convoy escort rarely happens any more, but in such instances it's not the best example. Nor is it always the best example regarding bomber suppression.

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[Lythrilux]

Also what's the point in SHFs having turrets? Might as well swap them for gun hard points.

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[Misfit]

Genuinely surprised seeing this thread, as I've always been under the impression that SHFs were more or less useless because of their slow speed and large size making them super easy to hit and out-turn, and this is coming from "the osprey guy".

After reading this thread though it seems apparent that the only real issue has been the SNAC change, which seems like something that can be fixed. If you can make a SNAC do different damage across different ship types, why not just balance it so the SNAC does more damage against SHFs? SHFs would then remain a good counter to VHFs (which they absolutely should be) but would be easily countered by bombers who literally would be able to insta them.

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[Corile]

[22:16] Corile: i still would like to see what would happen if you gave the spatial 12 guns and less armor

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[Tenacity]

[22:16] Corile: i still would like to see what would happen if you gave the spatial 12 guns and less armor

4 more guns wouldnt honestly change much, you're always going to be limited by powerplant. The only thing a 12 gun setup would do is encourage running 12 1.0 or 2.0 weapons and one shotting everyone, which is exactly why the snac was nerfed in the first place.

I think it should be going the opposite direction, actually: Guns are fine, but drop SHFs to having one fighter/torp slot and one disruptor-only slot so they cant equip double mini razors or have as much anti-cap variety as bombers (no more pairing a neutralizer or corona with a nova), and then increase their defensive capabilities further. Allowing SHFs to equip transport or light gunboat shields, for example, so they can survive a little longer despite their larger size.

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[Enkidu]

Also what's the point in SHFs having turrets? Might as well swap them for gun hard points.

You -can- turret steer in some SHFs.

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(Links pending redevelopment).

[Tenacity]

Also what's the point in SHFs having turrets? Might as well swap them for gun hard points.

You -can- turret steer in some SHFs.

Only the ones with properly placed cameras, since they cant turret zoom. The spatial is, unfortunately, not one of those: it's camera is right up the tail pipe.

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[Ramke]

If only the ridiculous SNAC nerf didn't make the gun completely useless compared to any other bomber weapon, SHFs would have a direct counter. Their only real weakness was that they were significantly easier to hit with damage nukes like SNACs, countering their high armour.

Right now they're simply very strong because they don't have a weakness other than a larger hitbox, but in smaller fights/duels that doesn't matter. Only really experienced players can maneuver well enough to take advantage of the SHF being a bit slower than the rest, and the armour they get mitigates the hitbox disadvantage considering snubs don't deal a lot of damage.

An LF could make it easier to outmaneuver it, but that would take ages as LFs don't deal damage and are unlikely to win because they die to one mine that's easy to set up. A HF is just a nerfed VHF. A gunboat will have an easier time, but it's really frowned upon to fight fighters in a gunboat for reasons in this community - and nobody would duel a gunboat in a small fight anyway.

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