I realized the irony while writing my post.
But hey, we can't all promote Zoner's true roleplay and then sell zoner guard ID's to anyone around, or "liberate slaves" because the profit is great.
You have been a zoner for what now? At least a year? I don't see any improvement of the Zoners, hell, even in the Order. I see things going down because people lack the spine to step up.
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Quote:I don't see any improvement of the Zoners, hell, even in the Order. I see things going down because people lack the spine to step up. I see things going down because people lack the spine to step up..
And isn't it ironic that when we do take a stand or fight back, many, not all, of those who feel this way then say, "that's not the Zoner way." We can't win.
Doc man you know I care great deal for you even though I never met you, and that like says more than tons of ****. But you should care more about that puddle in front of your house than about opinions from the mass whining on forums.
man maybe everyone should have joined OPG to realize that in start. People will always whine. Zoners are HUGE faction where no matter how hard you try, you will always get screwed by a indie trader that couldn't give a damn. People will call you on them.
Example: you trade with your zoner and you aren't in a faction - indie zoner.
Another indie zoner trades cardamine trough omegas and goes on whinerage.
Calls his Order alt or friend to shoot at corsairs.
Relationships ruined between indie zoners and corsairs and order. Next time corsair sees an indie zoner he'll blast him up or charge him more, regardless.
you have a zoner faction, distance yourself from the independent BS that's sprouting around and take some offensive action. That does not mean "wage a war" but work for both sides (all sides) and the side that actually refuses the help zoner convoys give?
Well park 15 jinkusus at their main base and ANNOY THEM TO DEATH.
In situation a (aka current approach) you have people whining about zoners lack of rp while you are in danger of losing your nerves or actually thinking about disco crap at work and making planes crash then. (yes, doc fixes planes. care for his mental state)
or in situation b (with 15 jinkusus) you have people whining how you're an ASSHAT, but your nerves are at peace, and the faction you're Jinkusuing about suddenly wants to negotiate, at least OORP. You will make an agreement.
more than 75% of internet population are wimps. There's just few obstacles they put in the way to mask that. Push hard and you'll get what you want. Just... separate from indies.
a question that pops up when it comes to the half yearly zoner bashing...
why zoners? - why not junkers... or others.
maybe zoners are hard to understand, cause people like "simple". freelancer is simple. it is not red is dead - but it is as close as it gets. even the master RPers like it simple. - most of those respected factions - and players who write 100 pages of stories ... rely on pvp in the end.
pvp is simple - it provides striking results, it is CLEAR.
the zoner factions however can be nasty sometimes.. they carry a fight to where its harder to score a hit than sniping a patriot from 3k with a supernova. - that is - they take it to a rethotical basis. not a good hand eye coordination is whats required... but different skills.
but what awesome pvper really wants to give in to someone who sinks in pvp, but can talk you down? - after all... we play a pvp spaceshooter - and the best people are those that can shoot others down, aren t they?
diversity and unity are concepts hard for some to understand - also ... if not ESPECIALLY in real life - and when people don t get the idea of diversity in real life... how can we expect them to get the idea in a simple game?
people in the world are occupied with prejudice and bias.... they got crossed by one person - and curse the entirety of people who are similar - by hair colour, gender, skin colour, social status, country.
diversity is hard to understand... and so we get down to the very easy "you vs. me" - a good old "two sided concept" ... where i know where i stand - and where i can DEFINE the other one in a way that paints him to be "the other side".
not understanding a more complex approach to "fighting a war without weapons" overwhelms some - so they start shooting, cause it gets things down to their level - and its so much simpler. its a bit like chess - the simple mind just sees a guy moving a pice of wood over a checked board - and he gets bored quickly - its so much easier to smash the board and punch the opponent to win.
Actually Jinx, I see combat and non combat as the same game.
If you have a dog and you want to teach him how to sit, but he wants to chase his tail, it is not his failure if you do not teach him how to sit. (no offense, not comparing anyone to dogs)
If you encounter a hostile Xeno that wants to beat the crap out of Zoners and if the Xenos are currently hostile to Zoners no matter what you guys do, I guess you can call your attempt to play the game without a gun - a failure.
Perhaps trying some other language or form of communications with them might succeed much better.
Violence is part of the politics too.
As for Junkers:
Junkers got their wings clipped off by the new rules not allowing them to pirate corporations in the house space. I still stand by my opinion that this is a horrible decision and rule ruined a lot of potentially quality roleplay. Everyone suddenly started to take junkers to pirate around, and to pirate ore. people freaked and complained OORP-ly instead of taking more action INRP. So junkers got screwed.
Perhaps if someone with more direct approach lead some official junker group then, that could simply FR5 every junker that did something stupid we would get somewhere.
Perhaps leaders of LN could have shut down the junker base behind manhattan. It's very simply to deny docking for everyone.
But I'm afraid that people would only complain more then and whine and whine until they would either leave or destroy all junker bases like that.
but why is it that when people suggest "back to vanilla - back to the roots" they never start in their own factions?
people question zoner warships - but don t question their own. - people question the power of a faction, but don t ask about their own. its such a vexing unreflected point of view - incapable of self reflection and multiple viewpoints.
if we made the zoners the way some people asked ( no warships - back to small ships, no more than dromedary, docile ) - what happens to the roleplay of those that established it with the disco zoners?
they are lol-wuts ( according to those ) that only sit around freeports in their big caps, bossing others around for no reason... <-- that is what not only newbies but also so called respected community members said that have been around disco since like 08
a reasonable discussion on such a basis does not work.
the junker example was picked to show how much a vanilla RP can change - for the good and bad.
True but why do you keep .. like.. listening or talking to the people that give criticism without any solutions?
I know that you have, a while ago took control with your char of freeport 11 (near Order one)
did that freeport actually flourish more than others? I mean once you have it there's really few things stopping you from actually developing some cool roleplay there. Push some order convoys (we all know they're dying for some supplies), and some restocking options for the bounty hunters. either way if more people claimed a freeport under their command at least we would know who to turn to for certain things
taking control was termporarily - and was never meant to last long, it was an inRP measure to separate the station from the political struggle elsewhere in sirius.
but only till the waves calmed down. - besides that little coup took talking to all the surrounding factions. and it was a success in a way... . but its not clear if it would have worked anyway without that.
the problem was simply. - the coz got into trouble over something that doesn t affect fp11 the slightest - and the balance in delta is corsairs / bhg / nomads / zoners - ... so why care for gran canaria or outcast or such.
fp11 was not attacked - and distancing it made it a less likely target.
but the recent thing targetted all zoners - which made fp11 a target, too. separating it would not have worked.
making things "better" - who is to say whats better? - only zoners, certainly no others. - others can mention how they like it - but only zoners can say whats better or worse. ( if we stay in RP )
zoners rely more on roleplay than pvp focussed factions. - roleplay needs to be multisided ... pvp can be one sided. when someone doesn t play along in pvp, he dies... when someone doesn t play along in RP .... the RP is ruined.
zoners are only as good as others let them be. - when you never violate the laws and consider them neutral - they ARE neutral. it is not their choice, it is yours.... entirely. if you don t want them neutral or on your good side - there is NOTHING ( except admin / rules intervention ) that keeps you from waging war.
So you just separated it to avoid conflict? That makes the move totally less sympathetic than I thought at first place.
You cannot simply detach yourself from problems when they rise while being "with" the problem while the problem isn't there. Basically taking a stance means sticking to it, for a while. If FP11 was detached because of the problems that rose from other Zoner actions they should have kept their independence for a while and prove they're truly detached. That is why I'm telling Doc to detach from the indie zoners and other factions that do not share the same view.
I cannot see why would that be a bad move. We're far from vanilla Zoners, why cannot they evolve and make each group suffer for their own mistakes.
If you take it into account that it takes a very very looong time to reach Liberty from outer worlds, then why would... Fp11 be in any way connected to... that freeport in Bering or wherever it is.
EDIT:
Actually I beg to differ. Coming from fist had experience, Zoners were totally fired upon and annihilated by the Corsairs because they refused to bring food to the Crete. Zoners aren't neutral because... JUST BECAUSE. They're neutral because they worked their ass off to remain neutral. When zoners do not work their ass off - the other factions start to demand things. When demands aren't met, they wage a war.
you aren't space parasites dependent on mercy of others. you should be the most cunning and ruthless politicians in all Sirius
ivan - i cannot detach anything for any significant time, cause i am not factionized - i have no RIGHT to do so.
and yes - hell, of course the detachment was done to avoid conflict - thats the only reason to operate in these parts in RP. my char ( not myself - a concept some ppl should take in ) - wants to avoid conflicts. - so she takes actions to achive it.
sticking to what a character percieves and how a character decides and takes action - that is how disco RP may work. not what a player knows, thinks and wishes for.
generally - characters know a good deal less than players - and only few players manage to RP their characters ignorant enough.
but i don t get it why you say "avoiding conflict" makes the move less sympathetic. i m at a loss what more would you expect from a freeport in delta
edit:
about the food.... be real. - food gives you nothing. if you don t roleplay suffering from food, you don t need food. - the game engines doesn t make you suffer from food ( like adding mass to your ships - so they feel sluggish and your reactions become worse due to starvation )
what we have here is TIME vs. PROFIT. if zoners got a decent coin from delivering food which they ought to do - more zoners would do it
but if they get like 500k for a 20 min delivery - no one will do. - there is not enough incentive ... blame the tradesystem - i don t know. ( i don t btw. )
edit2:
on a technical note - the zoner factions have feedback threads. - yet - all those that made fun flood topics or ranted a little or let off steam - failed to post in those in the past. its like complaining under your breath for years until it comes to a huge burst out where you grab a gun and run amok.
instead you could have addressed what you dislike for ages in the past and achieve a much better and constructive feedback. - but like in RL - official feedback is avoided as long as people can complain to themselves or to similarly minded people who also fail to file constructive critizism in the official threads.
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