Liners need speed, not cargo space

[Gamazson]

I'm back and bad.

Liners don't need more speed, cargospace, better weapons and shields.
What they are really need is TO BE SCRAPPED.

End of discussion:tease:

AoM

Don't make me smite you :P

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AKA Nexus

[globalplayer-svk]

nexus,nothing personaly agains liners but its not good when i see 6 traders on one route.and 4 haev liners full of diamonds,or boron or another cargo.and only trading nothing more.and when i ask them why liners,answer is better shields,bigger cargo and guns.liners are primary for carying passengers i think not that all use them for trading because their are little better as pure trading ships.

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[McNeo]

Global makes very good points. Liners are furnished with the most high tech luxury equipment for the queen, VIPs and rich people, or high tech security systems for prison liners. They are made for hauling people, not Diamonds or Military vehicles.

The furnishings should reduce the size of the cargo hold. Maybe 3500 max, but certainly no more. How they are now can stay as long as they have less cargo. Otherwise it is unbalanced, and we will whore gunboats to kill the liners coming through trading.

[globalplayer-svk]

when pirate try tax someone in liner,in fighter he has little chance to stop him or kill him (i know someone can do it,but not all pirates are good pilots) so yes i agree with mcneo,in while all pirates buy gb to make a chance tay or stop liners,and noone will be happy because noone will fly with fighter and all will be in gb.

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[Gamazson]

I would like to point out that the only reason the liners are currently being whored is because everyone knew that the cargo was going to be upgraded this version, so they bought them cheap last version and waited. In addition the liners are currently much more cost effecting then a comparable train, which needs to change.

The liners themselves are not flawed.

EDIT: Also fighters are a liners worst enemy. Most pirates are just to noobish to realize that you need to attack by the nose where the field of vision and targeting angles all suck. I get blown up pretty regularly because my tag is a giant shoot me sign.

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AKA Nexus

[Jinx]

what i like about the liners is, - they are pretty well designed when it comes to turrets, size and agility.

they are big enough and their hitbox ( or the point at which they enter a tradelane ) is placed so a trader cannot just click on a lane and autodock and then go afk.
they have plenty of turrets - but are not able to fire them all into the same direction, they make a large target, too - but are not too easy to CD, except for train CDs.

the armor of liners is fine and shields of 100k are good but not too strong.

the only thing i can think of to get them in line with what they are intended for is...

create a special equipment slot that allows to load up "living cargo". make passengers, slaves, VIPs etc no common commodity ( thats what i said equipment slot ) so that normal transports cannot buy them anymore. change liners so they cannot buy normal commodities anymore.

that way - we d get special ships that can only be used to transfer people around. makes them highly inflexible ( maybe add at least 200 normal cargospace for loot / RP luggage ) but prevents them from being used for raw materials.

i know goods cannot be assigned to specific ships only. ( igiss pointed that out ) so a special equipment slot might be the only solution - but then again, i doubt that the community wants a ship that can only be used to transport 3 commodities:laugh:

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[McNeo]

I would like to point out that the only reason the liners are currently being whored is because everyone knew that the cargo was going to be upgraded this version, so they bought them cheap last version and waited. In addition the liners are currently much more cost effecting then a comparable train, which needs to change.

The liners themselves are not flawed.

EDIT: Also fighters are a liners worst enemy. Most pirates are just to noobish to realize that you need to attack by the nose where the field of vision and targeting angles all suck. I get blown up pretty regularly because my tag is a giant shoot me sign.

Certainly, that is not the only reason. I would have bought one too, but my IND trader is actually a trader, and not a liner pilot. I can sacrifice 700 cargo space and the rubbish shield of an Adv. Train any day for a amazing looking Bretonian Royal Liner. Those things look so good, and I would still buy one if they were 200 million in the next version.

In terms of Economics, the opportunity cost by buying a Luxury liner is that you pay the same amount as an Advanced train for less cargo. That, however, is the only cost, if you count big ones which mean something. But if you wish to point out that liners are hard to pilot through trade lanes, then I wish to point out that Advanced trains actually do turn like the Osiris, not just look like one. For the loss in opportunity, you gain, over the advanced train, 5 more guns, more armour, double shielding and generally being more dangerous to your opponent.

Also, I can safely say that you do not want to come from the front of a luxury liner, simply because 10 of the 11 guns fires forward. To add to that gun point, the Osiris can't fire its guns in some directions either, but no one made a complaint about that.

I will reiterate, liners need a nerf, either in cargo space or in a 50-100% price hike, otherwise no one will be happy, least not the normal traders who will see 4 gunboats bearing down on them every time they venture into the boarder worlds.

@Jinx: I'm not sure that's possible, or worth the time, but I know no facts on modding so my view on that is void until further notice:mellow:

[alance]

STOP WITH THE PRICE HIKES

This is why I quit playing EVE. I couldn't afford to buy a new ship in half the cases because in a misguided attempt to make certain ships 'special' they were priced out of any sensible range.

I. Can't. Play. That. Much. Each. Week.

So every time price gets jacked here, in the name of 'balance', that's just one more thing I will likely no longer have access to buy. Sure it stops some people from buying ship X or thing Y... but those "some people" are not the pvp/trade/whatever-whores that spend 10 hours per day playing this game. They're guys like me who want some variety and new experiences in their Disco play but spend most of their time in fighters and transports by RP necessity.

Do I want to fly a Liner? No I don't RP anyone who would have a Liner, but I just watched my faction's cruiser double in price and have no clue when we'll be able to afford one now. STOP IT. please.

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"To gain a hundred victories in a hundred battles is not the highest excellence;
to subjugate the enemy's army without doing battle is the highest of excellence."

[McNeo]

Cruisers aren't expensive...

well, they are, but that is why I own a grand total of...

1 (shared) TBH Corsair Cruiser. [BHG destroyer I had got deleted, so...]
1 (shared) Liberty Cruiser [My personal favourite cruiser]

neither of which I paid for....

I was thinking of buying a BHG Battlecruiser, but that would mean I would have to trade more for the shadow stalker's store to have a Bretonian Liner... the agony!

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I understand your point exactly Morrigan, so that is why my first choice would be to have the liners have a maximum of 3500 cargo and a minimum of 3000. They aren't trading vessels, and they should not be the trading vessel of choice like they are now...

[Dab]

Now since I just moved, and haven't been able to get on for 2 days, I can't read this ENTIRE thing (especially because my family is celebrating Thanksgiving today, as we couldn't yesterday.)

From what I've seen, Morrigan thinks Liners need to lose their cargo and get speed. First of all, I have to ask, WHY THE MAJOR NERF GUYS? Liners JUST lost their level 8 guns, and a chunk of power capacity. To compensate, they got more cargo.

Now, the Luxury and Prison Liners are bigger than the Large Train. The only ship I think is bigger, is the Adv. Train (not even sure, as I haven't seen the Adv. T). And right now, that Adv. Train is the only thing with larger cargo. Size relation with cargo fits in the case doesn't it?

Right now, the Container Transport has more firepower than the Luxury Liner has, and is harder to hit. So the Liner doesn't have too much firepower for its carrying capacity either.

About the speed; Do you see anything larger than a FREIGHTER with 200 speed with thruster on? Cruisers, which are about 1/2 the size of a liner, have the 135 thruster speed. So why would a liner that is twice as big, have a FASTER speed, when most have smaller engines, and theirs are not military-quality either?

Now to some looks as to what things influenced the liner's creation. The American President's convoy. Usually consists of 4 guys on motorcycles, and then 2 cars, with the Limo. Now that Limo, that is the Luxury Liner in this case. It has some very nice luxury in it.
But its also bullet-proof, and can keep the president alive and safe from the explosion of a rocket launcher. Now this car is NOT fast. Not at all. Its heavy, its slow, but it can take alot of punishment.
Thats what the luxury liner should be like. Very nice in the inside, but strong enough to survive an attack through its amount of armor. It should also be very slow.

Now the comparison for the Prison Liner. It transports hardened criminals who's friends are going to try freeing. In real life, prisoners are transported in big buses, that are armored and slow. When they are flown, they are usually on a huge plane that looks like a cargo-carrying plane. Its got very thick hull and is DEFINITELY slow. It goes like a whopping 350 mph compared to a fighter jet's top speed of 1150 mph. Commercial planes go about 650 mph. Now which is slower, and by how much?

Now I have seen we are on the subject of prices.. I don't really see where you have room to argue. Cruisers went something like 60 to 100 million credits. Thats 1.6x increase in price from original. Luxury Liners went from 25 million to 114 million Thats almost 5x increase in price.

Now lets compare the Large Train. Large Train costs 80 million. Thats 70% of the Liner's cost. Now the cargo. Large Train has 4500 cargo. Luxury liner has 4600. Thats a whole whopping 100 cargo increase. So effectively, 100 cargo and 5 more turret points (and keep in mind, these are nearly worthless level 7 turrets) costs the liner 34 million credits. Now which one is cheaper for its cargo capacity?

17,777 credits per cargo unit on a large train.
24,782 credits per cargo unit on a luxury liner.

Which is the one that is cheap for its cargo?

Now, its true that the liner has more armor and firepower. IT DOES NOT HAVE MORE SHIELDING. It lost its level 8 shield slot when it lost its level 8 turrets.

So that little bit of armor, and useless firepower, makes it so much better than the Large and Adv. Train? I dare to ask how. Its armor lasts about 1-3 minutes longer, which is nearly useless. But the Liner is also LARGER than the L/Adv. Trains, easier to hit, and just as slow, and horrible with Trade Lanes. How does the firepower, 100 cargo, and armor advantage make up for a large size, horrible trade lane access, and 34 million credits?

And the luxury liner being difficult to pirate with a fighter? Do you know how many pirates come after me? Unless I found a slow gunboat (and this was with Gunboat shield and weapons) I was a dead man. It took all my skill in piloting and in getting away just to avoid having to pay 50% of the time. The other 50% I was taken an inch into my life and forced to pay. This is with GB weaps and shields. Almost always this was done by a fighter. I had a better chance against GBs because they were also slow, had slightly less pure firepower and armor (though this is now the opposite) and weren't good at disrupters. A liner is at the mercy of a fighter. And I've beaten two prison liners with a single STOCK Rheinland Gunboat (it has a crap FWD gun) and still had half my bots left. You can ask Nexus, it was two of his SU that got it. And this was when they had GB shields and guns, which they no longer have.

Furthermore, how can you argue and complain about a ship you've never flown, never want to fly, never would do any RP connected to it, or even testing it beyond looking at numbers, which don't show everything. I've had my RP Liner for about a year now. I've played it for a LONG time. I know whether its weak and easily pirated or not from the perspective of the liner, not from the pirate. Just because you might not be great a pirating doesn't mean liners should be nerfed. I've encountered PLENTY of pirates good enough to force me to pay. Now to mention that the new CDs can disrupt me even after I've gotten into cruise.

So I ask; How is it better than the Adv. Train or Large Train? How is it too strong? How would giving it MORE speed would make it weaker instead of even better against the pirates that say they already have enough trouble fighting it in combat?

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