Bomber balance

[mohr]

Well, I got a suggestion that does not involve changing the equipment. Just my views of course.

I am under the impression it is difficult for cap ships (not including gunships) to hit the slower bombers (and fighters for that matter). I believe this is intended, and good for balance. Now because bombers are hard to hit, should they still have the far larger hulls? Currently the drawbacks a bomber faces compared to a fighter is fewer normal guns and for the majority of them less manuvurability. The advantages are more hull, more energy, and two torp tubes with a wider selection of insta kill weapons.

Now nothing can really be done about the insta kill weapons if you want to keep fighters and bombers competative with caps. However, bombers currently have more hull (in some cases double their VHF counterparts), and more energy and torp slots to end a fight quickly with an insta kill weapon.

Perhaps reducing the hull on bombers will solve most of the bomber issues (the over-manuverable bombers need an agility decrease still). The lower hull will make them less of an option against fighters(maybe not requiring a mini-razer to kill), they will still be hard to hit by cap ships, and fighter escourts for both bombers and cap ships will be seen more. The bombers will still be a threat to fighters, the bomber pilot just wont have as much time to do it in and their survivability in a furball will decrease.

This will also put more emphasis on skill by making people want to dodge more. I thought this was already something people did against VHF in the old version because then even VHF could shoot a nova. Also, I don't really like the idea of losing the duel torps. If bombers are still overpowered, decrease their hull some more. They get fire power at the expense of hull, like how kusari fighters get manuverability at the expense of hull.

What do you think? Sorry about the wall of text... :$

Mohr

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[mjolnir]

@mohr

If you look on some bombers.. there's not so much armor left to take off:

Bombers have from 24 500 down to 16 000 armor.

VHFs have from some 9000 - 16 000 armor.

Not much space in between there. And yes it's the more agile bombers that have less armor.


There's not so much left in the agility area either... yes the catamaran bomber is agile... and 3LFs + 2 Templars could not stop 1 Kusari bomber and 5 Chimaeras from destroying a Bretonian Destroyer and Gunboat.

I don't think that was so unexpected - Templars are about as agile as the Kusari bomber - so they couldn't keep up.. and 3 LFs didn't had the firepower. What I want to say.. it was the most extreme situation that could happen - Most agile bomber x Least agile VHF.

Some small decrease in the agility of the most agile bombers might be ok...

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[mohr]

I understand that the bombers are balanced between themselves so that the more manuverable bombers have less hull. However, (and please correct me if I am wrong) currently if a a given fighter has agility equal to "X", and there is a bomber with agility also equal to "X", nine times out of ten the bomber has more hull than the fighter. I want to know why, I guess. If compared, the bomber will have the same agility, more hull, far more energy, but fewer normal guns (which don't really matter if they insta kill you).

Now the bomber unique weapons and the few torp energy weapons for fighter (mini-razer/inferno) shouldn't be nerfed very much in the damage department or they will be ineffective against caps. As long as fighters are going to be competative with caps ther will always be a insta kill (or nearly so) weapon. All I am saying is bring the hull of bombers closer in line with normal fighters. A small difference will make a big difference if you think about the armor upgrades.

Note: I was not refering to any one incident or any particular bomber/fighter. This was done to prevent any biase from getting involved. I like the differences between the Chimaera and the Werewolf and such fighters; variety is important. I just don't think the bombers really need the extra hull anymore.

What do you think?

Mohr

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[Othman]

Ain't the bombers meant to counter caps? And since they are strictly nerfed already, we need to encourage using fighter escorts near bombers from now on. Make the mini razor and inferno only fighter mountable then and give the bombers 1xSupernova plus 1xCD slots so that they would really mean countering caps instead of dueling fighters alone.

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On the uncharted lagoons of anguish, I sail with a canoe made of my sins.

[mjolnir]

The only fighter/bomber combination that has about the same agility is the

Blood Dragon/ Kusari bomber vs the Templar (least agile VHF)
(two most agile)

in armor it's:

16000/ 16400 vs 14000

No big difference then... bombers need armor to survive against hits from cap guns. They have less bots/bats now also (from 85 - 115).

I see Kress also likes the idea of 1 CD/T + 1 CD slot.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Razr]

My hammer bets your skull that it's rather easy!:P

On a more serious note, I know how to fight bombers. It's not just the duelling that bothers me, I know how to evade their shots. The problem is that despite being considered a very good aim, I can't kill bombers quick enough to prevent them taking out the capital ships which I am escorting.

Well, usually when there's 2-3 enemy bombers on a capship I just fly to a point to where they continue shooting it my guns will quickly destroy them. I just keep all the bombers jumpy until the capship has done all it can. As for nailing one bomber, unless they're very talented like say... McNeo, Dboy, Desecrator, Sonja, or Mjolnir they're fairly easy to take down if you know the tactics which I'll let you learn by yourselves:P

[DBoy1612]

(I find it funny how my name keeps coming up in examples.:P)

Right, my turn! Lets see...

Supernova: It's fine! It's been nerfed enough as it is. At the moment it takes almost an entire bar of energy from a bomber, takes forever to recharge, and does what it can against capital ships (which isn't much if you're by yourself). So just leave it.

Nova Torp: I don't really know what to say about this one... Yes, it does a lot of damage allowing people to whore it. But with that splash damage, it in a way does make it balanced as it could hit the one firing it. Meh, no real comment on them.

Mini Razor: Ok, the energy on that thing has already been nerfed. It's what... 9000 now? It takes about 3/4 of a fighters energy. Leave it how it is, it's supposed to be a fighter weapon. If people use it on Bombers, then fine, let them. It's not going to change much. Why? Because for the reason I've said a thousand times, learn to dodge! A Bomber can easily be taken on if you know how to fly a fighter. Just because you're a crappy pilot doesn't mean it should nerf everything used against you. (Ya, sorry I'm going on my Nova rant again.)

Bombers Agility: Right, some of the Bombers agility are just fine, (Rheinland Bomber, Taiidan Bomber, Corsair Bomber [forgot the name, damn it...], Falcata). And then there are a few they do need a bit of a touch up (Kusari Bomber, Bounty Hunter bomber). The things can turn like fighters in some cases, maybe a bit of an armor increase and maneuverability decrease? Dunno really...

The end...

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Retired Admin
What Dustin now spends his free time doing... Don't hurt me... Though EVEMail me if you play. ^_^

[Qunitinius~Verginix]

Don't Forget the Barghest! Biggest, and Heaviest Bomber there is. That thing is a friggen tank, and slow as one to. But, If you can aim, It KILLS your opponents.

Verg

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[mjolnir]

More to the Kusari/ Blood Dragon bombers:

yes they are agile.. but apart from the armor being quite low, they have another big disadvantage... they lose all equipment really fast.

I wasn't sure until today.. but for the third time, 2-3 volatile gas explosions around the bomber were enough to blast just about all weapons off.

So agility is the only think that keeps them alive.... please don't decrease it too much.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[DBoy1612]

Ah, that's fair enough then. Never even thought about that.:)

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Retired Admin
What Dustin now spends his free time doing... Don't hurt me... Though EVEMail me if you play. ^_^