So, bases

[Soul Reaper]

@Thyrzul

To retaliate.

In my opinion this is not a real roleplay based server, however due to everyone assuming it is, I'll play along with them. Now, bases were made to be..bases, not ships. With your mindset of "abuse", we should take down the Missouri, no? I mean, people can't take that thing down at all and it's only a battleship, but it saves fleet's lives from them rheinlanders, and is a point that is easy to defend, should we take that down too?

TAZ is the authority of their system only if they can hold that authority, just by saying "yeah it's ours" doesn't make it theirs roleplay-wise, they'll have to defend their claim, thus, their station.

Now let's go on to ZA and your assumed "authority". NO ONE owns Omicron 74 according to the admins, it is not a single player faction's system and it probably never will be. It might be a Zoner Guard system but let's remember that there is no Zoner central government so each NPC station in there would probably have their own leaders and so on. Now let's get to the roleplay side of things. The ZA wanted to "control traffic" in 74, so they constructed their bases, now again PoBs were built to act like a BASE, not a ship, they're NOT supposed to die once fully constructed, because normal NPC bases DON'T die. So the ZA used their resources to build their stations as well as keep supplying them.

Now let's come to your reasons of thinking this is wrong. Order authority? Who gives single shit about the Order? Are you kidding me? They died, they have no real damn fleet and this is freaking Omicron 74 we're talking about, they have NO real power, anywhere except maybe 100/Mu/Zeta (again, roleplay wise). So the Order trying to take down a well defended guard system? Yeah ok.

Locking down the system somehow makes it..not ok...because? Exactly, there's no real reason except for the fact that they wanted to, and they have the power to do so, you're crying powergame because they have many members that are active and powertrading to get resources up and online, what's wrong with that? Are people jealous of this? Sorry but I'd rather not have rules put into place just to make it fair for (in example) a 3 man when going against a 10 man and active faction.

Now if people do think that's somehow wrong, I return to my first opinion that this is not a roleplay server, in roleplay (which is obviously based off of life, because there's no where else to base it out of) nothing is fair yet people want it to be fair and then they tell everyone that it's roleplay? K.

And now back to "taking over the system", they have the manpower, they have the activity and the resources to take it over, and no one contested them. So I don't see a problem? People -can- take what they want, if they didn't, how is this a roleplaying game?

Edit: Oh and, they "locked down" the system? You ever actually been to 74? The weapon platforms are way too far from any of the holes to create any real problem for any ship passing by. Not sure how that's a lockdown game-wise.

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[Jack_Henderson]

Let's see...

Q: Which type of bases have caused massive problems?
A: Mainly the "hole/gate blocking" type

I would say, let's start there.
The rest of the bases do hardly harm anybody.

What to do?

Make a base rule. No PoB closer than 5k near any NPC object.
=> good visibility
=> good access
=> far enough to not allow insta-turrets
=> close enough to do some damage and cause a nice firework that tells you "They do not like you!"


For more rule suggestions, see this thread: http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=99630

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[Sabru]

"TAZ is the authority of their system only if they can hold that authority, just by saying "yeah it's ours" doesn't make it theirs roleplay-wise, they'll have to defend their claim, thus, their station."

Speaking as a member of the TAZ, im sure all of us would dispute that along with the devs/admins who gave us control of the system.

RP wise, the TAZ has a fair sized fleet to defend itself. Kinda comes from having psychotic Gallics next door.

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[Haste]

What we need is a way to destroy bases that involves about as much time and risk as building one in the first place.

Building a base is risky.

That's the only risk in disco. And destroying a base is time consuming already.

..Which is exactly why I said we need a way to destroy them that involves as much risk. "Aggressive bases" have been mentioned in the past. Things that can be destroyed permanently much like bases themselves. Hence, risk.

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[Soul Reaper]

Speaking as a member of the TAZ, im sure all of us would dispute that along with the devs/admins who gave us control of the system.

RP wise, the TAZ has a fair sized fleet to defend itself. Kinda comes from having psychotic Gallics next door.

"Speaking as a member of the TAZ" doesn't really grant you any legitimacy on the subject.

But anyway, the TAZ was just an example, I never said they didn't have the firepower to defend themselves. Both ingame and in lore.

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[Soul Reaper]

..Which is exactly why I said we need a way to destroy them that involves as much risk. "Aggressive bases" have been mentioned in the past. Things that can be destroyed permanently much like bases themselves. Hence, risk.

That was my point, we -do- need them, but, looking at the community, this place would probably turn into a warzone if we did that, I mean look at what a single "killable" asset does to people...

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[Thyrzul]

@Thyrzul

To retaliate.

In my opinion this is not a real roleplay based server, however due to everyone assuming it is, I'll play along with them. Now, bases were made to be..bases, not ships. With your mindset of "abuse", we should take down the Missouri, no? I mean, people can't take that thing down at all and it's only a battleship, but it saves fleet's lives from them rheinlanders, and is a point that is easy to defend, should we take that down too?

The Missouri is been there where it is since Vanilla, Devs decide over it, they did not move it yet, it is up to the Devs what to do with it. But with PoBs, they granted every player to construct entities of similar magnitude without being sure players are at least as much responsible as themselves are. And the Missouri is far not as lethal as PoBs can be.

TAZ is the authority of their system only if they can hold that authority, just by saying "yeah it's ours" doesn't make it theirs roleplay-wise, they'll have to defend their claim, thus, their station.

It's not just them saying "it's ours", they dwell it, roleplay-wise. Or should you need to fight for ownership of the house you live in just because somebody says it's not yours?

Now let's go on to ZA and your assumed "authority". NO ONE owns Omicron 74 according to the admins, it is not a single player faction's system and it probably never will be. It might be a Zoner Guard system but let's remember that there is no Zoner central government so each NPC station in there would probably have their own leaders and so on. Now let's get to the roleplay side of things. The ZA wanted to "control traffic" in 74, so they constructed their bases, now again PoBs were built to act like a BASE, not a ship, they're NOT supposed to die once fully constructed, because normal NPC bases DON'T die. So the ZA used their resources to build their stations as well as keep supplying them.

Funny you compare PoBs to NPC bases while the two differ vastly. You don't place an NPC base anywhere, unless you are a Dev. You don't upgrade NPC bases, unless you are a Dev. Again, the Devs handed out a powerful toy to everybody without a system to filter out the ones irresponsible enough to become potential abusers of this toy.

Now let's come to your reasons of thinking this is wrong. Order authority? Who gives single ***** about the Order? Are you kidding me? They died, they have no real damn fleet and this is freaking Omicron 74 we're talking about, they have NO real power, anywhere except maybe 100/Mu/Zeta (again, roleplay wise). So the Order trying to take down a well defended guard system? Yeah ok.

Yeah, Order, Phoenix, Solar Runners, AI, maybe Corsairs too... add those together and say ZA has a bigger military force. Impossible, they are just mere zoners.

Locking down the system somehow makes it..not ok...because?

Because they are not the owners of the system, hold no authority over it and have no rights to make decision about the system alone.

Exactly, there's no real reason except for the fact that they wanted to, and they have the power to do so, you're crying powergame because they have many members that are active and powertrading to get resources up and online, what's wrong with that?

There is nothing wrong with that, the issue is when they abused their powers to gain control over something they would be unable inRP, abused powers of a faulty system. Not sure if you have noticed or not, but this is the very first version of the PoB system, and it is apparent that this system needs adjustment.

Now if people do think that's somehow wrong, I return to my first opinion that this is not a roleplay server, in roleplay (which is obviously based off of life, because there's no where else to base it out of) nothing is fair yet people want it to be fair and then they tell everyone that it's roleplay? K.

There should be a healthy balance between gameplay and roleplay. Usually the two can go along well, but it is barely happening with PoBs. You know... imbalanced system, etc, read above.

And now back to "taking over the system", they have the manpower, they have the activity and the resources to take it over, and no one contested them. So I don't see a problem? People -can- take what they want, if they didn't, how is this a roleplaying game?

Everybody is contesting them if you haven't noticed. If gameplay would not screw up roleplay, ZA would be nowhere already.

Edit: Oh and, they "locked down" the system? You ever actually been to 74? The weapon platforms are way too far from any of the holes to create any real problem for any ship passing by. Not sure how that's a lockdown game-wise.

I've been there, I assure you. I've seen how "far" those platforms are.

"Speaking as a member of the TAZ" doesn't really grant you any legitimacy on the subject.

How so?

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[Highland Laddie]

Well, I'm against the "throw the baby out with the bathwater" mentality with PoBs. Yes, they're a new implementation. Yes, there are obvious mechanics where they can be exploited by both the builders/owners as well as the attackers, regardless of RP.

I think it's unfair to say the bases are what has killed RP, I think the community has just been hitting bumps in exploring their full potential. I think there are already several good ideas already proposed, and hopefully some feedback from the admins and devs could help make things even better for 4.87.

[Bootsiuv]

My biggest problem with bases is the fact that a core 4 is invulnerable because getting that many ships in one area with that much going on has a tendency to crash the server.

I wouldn't mind seeing core 4's made weaker overall, just enough so it can be killed without crashing the server.

Aside from that, they're fine. If you don't like a base blocking a jump gate/hole, then choose an alternate route, or blow it up before it gets out of hand.

Like Soul Reaper said, if people are able to get a core 4 base up and running near a busy jump hole, there either very active or no one was paying any attention. It's not the pob owners fault in that instance.

[Maddox]

Let's see...

Q: Which type of bases have caused massive problems?
A: Mainly the "hole/gate blocking" type

I would say, let's start there.
The rest of the bases do hardly harm anybody.

What to do?

Make a base rule. No PoB closer than 5k near any NPC object.
=> good visibility
=> good access
=> far enough to not allow insta-turrets
=> close enough to do some damage and cause a nice firework that tells you "They do not like you!"


For more rule suggestions, see this thread: http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=99630

I like this idea. It makes sense. Also, any base that adversely affects the game (ie plonking a level 4 base with platforms set to kill everything right on top of the NL/Leed jump gate) should be removed.