Katana or European Longsword

[Huhuh]

Landsknecht.

---

[Jihadjoe]

Scandinavia had some pretty widespread sword use... Although that was single handed and designed for use with a shield.

---

[Benjamin]

yeah using the swords to disrupt pike formations was the tactic of the tercio, but it's hard to swing a sword in tight formation yourself, and they were undone by pikes who could move better than they could. landsknecht were pikemen first and foremost too.
Scandinavia had a pretty different approach back in pagan times that I don't know much about, I was under the impression it was more of an axe affair though, but again due to axes being cheaper to make.

---

Join Cryer Pharmaceuticals

[Stoat]

The shield wall. That was what guided weapons of pre-norman times. The interlocked shields meant that swords of anything over 3' long were impractical because there simply wasn't the space to use them. Instead the front rank would have a long bladed heavy knife, similar in many ways to a Roman gladius. This allowed for stabs at the legs/groin of the opponent. The second rank tended to have a mixture of long hafted axes and short spears. The axes used for ripping shields down/forwarded to help break the wall, and spears for stabbing into any spaces the axes could make. Many dead men would remain held upright simply by the press of bodies. Imagine, if you can, the stench of alcohol, fear, death, blood, faeces and urine.

The shield wall was not a nice place to fight.

Long swords, whilst carried by most, were only used in skirmish fighting where there was space to wield them.

---

My Stories

[Benjamin]

nice post, I know very little of fighting from that period - and the one thing I can recall is the unbelievable proportions of leg wounds!

---

Join Cryer Pharmaceuticals

[Thyrzul]

it's hard to swing a sword in tight formation yourself

You don't have to swing it around your entire body if you are in a tight formation where you only have to take care of one spot. Shoulder to shoulder you only need to watch your front, not the sides, and concentrating to something right in front of you doesn't need too much swinging around.

Tl;dr - You are right, it is hard to swing around in tight formation, but it is also unnecessary.

---

[mc_Floyd]

I highly disagree. In my first year I've learnt basics, mostly stuff based on German school of fencing, teachings of Johannes Liechtenauer, written down by Hanko Doebringer, Sigmund Ringeck, Peter von Danzig. Based on the documents written by those three there is an era described as Early-Liechtenauerian era, ranging from 1350 to 1450.

Ok thats new for me, are they refering to the German "langes Schwert"?

Because i think you mean this one (late medieval, early renaissance long sword, two handed sword):


and im talking about this one (1200-1350, German "langes Schwer", or Anderthalbhänder ="one and a half hand used"/ Bastardsword):


Different swords from different times, probably not used in similar ways, dunno

Later in my second year I've learnt from this specific school more, mostly about "blossfechten" or "naked fight", fight without armor, tries to aim to hit/cut/stab the quickest way possible, in my third year I've learnt of the teachings of Fiore dei Liberi, Italian master. His book was more thorough and about way more stuff, longsword fencing already included armored combat, so his techniques are different than of Liechtenauer. In the future I'll most probably learn of Marozzo, Joachim Meyer (damn, I've seen his guard stances, like Liechtenauer's but lower and way less comfortable), Thibault, and dunno who/what else.

And this is the point where it becomes strange for me. Im not visiting a sword school or anything, but tried out some basics with other reenactors. They studied what they found about it (in matters of earlier medieval times, Liechtenauer is very late) and we tried that stuff out. It was horrible to execute, from my martial arts experience partial totally useless, as if there was missing something. Although i liked the part to use your metal gloves with the sword (eg stabilizing your blade with your hand to block and counter the attack)

Research is going on. There are a ton of transcripts and fight books to translate and examine, try out techniques, apply them in combat, master them. The Ars Ensis is about this. The HEMAC is about this. (And also not only longsword fencing, but a ton of other European medieval and historical weapons and fighting styles.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjT4JepA-Vc
Those two are great

I know you're right Thyrzul, when saying there is a lot of bequeathed techniques from books and pictures. But the point is, it some how died out in executing it. Which imo is a great disadvantage, cause you are forced to reconstruct the "lost techniques" step by step not even being able to say if you do it right or not. So yes researching in that direction is more than a cool hobby, but bringing back some of our lost living european culture.
Somehow the asians (ok somehow is mean, they put alot of effort in it), especially the Japanese managed to keep their culture of that kind. Thats why in films still the Samurai and his Katana are the known heroes and martial arts masters more often than a european knight with his longsword.

---

Proud 2.0er Code Sabre Pilot [-=XTF=-]
Checkout my videos on my way, becoming a good fighter pilot!

[Benjamin]

that 'movie' samurai culture is only a couple of hundred years old iirc, and doesn't have a whole lot to do with what they were actually like. it's accepted culture now in the way that ancient Greeks and Romans all had English accents - or that everyone fought with swords all the time.

---

Join Cryer Pharmaceuticals

[SummerMcLovin]

Landsknecht.

Good old Rise of Nations, Germans had so many special units!

---

Kingdom of Bretonia
Colonial Republic
Independent Miners Guild
Ex-Admin

[mc_Floyd]

Made my day...especially the sword part.

that 'movie' samurai culture is only a couple of hundred years old iirc, and doesn't have a whole lot to do with what they were actually like.

Mhm in context to the culture it does. The samurai as we know it today came up with the end of the emperors/shugonate time and with it the idealization of the "warrior". That happened around 1500 and the japanese kept that picture up. I mean they even took Katanas to WW2.

---

Proud 2.0er Code Sabre Pilot [-=XTF=-]
Checkout my videos on my way, becoming a good fighter pilot!