(07-20-2013, 02:31 PM)madvillain Wrote: I firmly believe that everyone on this planet eventually wishes for the same things in life.
While everyone wishes for the same things (for themselves), very few know how to reach them. And miniscule percent wishes others to have those things. Comunism (ideal, not Soviet) was created to grant those things to everyone, and we all know how good it went with Soviets. Problem with USA is that majority of people there can't tell apart valid points and total BS. Today democrats are second. Don't know about republicans, but whoever wanted G.W.Bush to lead republicans is definitly interesting person. And don't call European system perfect. Argubly, most of Europe is in worse position than USA right now. Only country I can call prosperous is Germany. Everyone else is more or less screwed. Oh, and what is majority doing? They just stop working, what puts economy into deeper situation. Both those systems favor not-so-smart majority, instead of more-so-smart minority. Results are fairly similar. I'm not bashing those systems, because I don't know better alternatives. What I mean is, no system is perfect, what matters are the poeple who participate in it.
P.S. Note how USA started to decline when cold war ended. Especially look at science, ESPECIALLY at space, look at plans that existed decades ago and look at what we have now. It was like two systems were fighting in worldwide elections, trying to impress every person, especially scientists. It will be a long long time before space industries return to its former glory. And another funny thing: many third world countries had tons of resources dumped into them, developed as never before. I'm just saying.
(04-23-2013, 11:29 AM)Echo 7-7 Wrote: When "roleplay" around you seems to be diminishing... all you can do is be a new beacon of roleplay to light up everyone else's interactions.
Formerly major industrial centres falling by the wayside with people basically picking what's left of a carcass...reminds me of a book I read once. Can you guess which one it might be...?
It's this one. Note that this might be opening a major can of worms, for Ayn Rand's work is...well, the subject of a fair bit of controversy, so I will not venture any opinion on that. But, the entire decay of industry was a major point in there if I recall. (it's been a while.)
I know very little about US politics or ideology in general, so I can't venture an opinion in the matter apart from that observation above. That being said, the seeming decay of industry and employment in both Europe and the US is difficult to reconcile for us in the third world, who've traditionally looked up to you guys as titans and ideals.
Sometimes I'm in favor of free markets.
Then I remember working as a risk management officer for a derivatives firm.
Now everytime somebody brings up self-oversight and self-regulation i pass out from laughing.
gone four years, first day back: Zoners still getting shot in Theta :|
(07-20-2013, 02:31 PM)madvillain Wrote: I firmly believe that everyone on this planet eventually wishes for the same things in life.
While everyone wishes for the same things (for themselves), very few know how to reach them. And miniscule percent wishes others to have those things. Comunism (ideal, not Soviet) was created to grant those things to everyone, and we all know how good it went with Soviets. Problem with USA is that majority of people there can't tell apart valid points and total BS. Today democrats are second. Don't know about republicans, but whoever wanted G.W.Bush to lead republicans is definitly interesting person. And don't call European system perfect. Argubly, most of Europe is in worse position than USA right now. Only country I can call prosperous is Germany. Everyone else is more or less screwed. Oh, and what is majority doing? They just stop working, what puts economy into deeper situation. Both those systems favor not-so-smart majority, instead of more-so-smart minority. Results are fairly similar. I'm not bashing those systems, because I don't know better alternatives. What I mean is, no system is perfect, what matters are the poeple who participate in it.
I am not claiming that the European countries are doing much better.
Especially the southern European countries suffer under the current crisis.
On a sidenote Germany is actually way less prosperous than the Scandinavian countries,
partly because there are no set minimum wages.
The country may be rich , it's people aren't.
I think capitalism is an outdated system , just like communism is.
Time has proven that both systems don't work.
The big problem with capitalism is it's dependence on growth.
As soon as people stop buying stuff , the growth stops , thus a crisis occurs.
What manufacturers do nowadays , is making sure that their products have a limited lifespan, so people are forced to buy new stuff regularly.
If they'd produce goods that are more sustainable they dig their own grave.
This is why we currently worldwide have a very wasteful society.
In order to keep up with capitalisms need for growth we constantly need more natural resources.
These resources get depleted and do not magically respawn (in game terms )
At the other end of the production cycle , we have more and more waste that doesn't fulfill any purpose other than recycling.
The problem with recycling is that it only returns a small percentage of the resources to the production cycle.
You don't need to be a Gaian scientist to understand what suffers the most under this system.
We only have one planet , everything we need and have relies on this planet.
Humanity will have to come up with a better system to ensure our survival in the long run.
I'm sorry for not being able to put this into words better , I hope y'all understand what I mean.
(07-20-2013, 06:36 PM)madvillain Wrote: I am not claiming that the European countries are doing much better.
Especially the southern European countries suffer under the current crisis.
On a sidenote Germany is actually way less prosperous than the Scandinavian countries,
partly because there are no set minimum wages.
The country may be rich , it's people aren't.
I think capitalism is an outdated system , just like communism is.
Time has proven that both systems don't work.
The big problem with capitalism is it's dependence on growth.
As soon as people stop buying stuff , the growth stops , thus a crisis occurs.
What manufacturers do nowadays , is making sure that their products have a limited lifespan, so people are forced to buy new stuff regularly.
If they'd produce goods that are more sustainable they dig their own grave.
This is why we currently worldwide have a very wasteful society.
In order to keep up with capitalisms need for growth we constantly need more natural resources.
These resources get depleted and do not magically respawn (in game terms )
At the other end of the production cycle , we have more and more waste that doesn't fulfill any purpose other than recycling.
The problem with recycling is that it only returns a small percentage of the resources to the production cycle.
You don't need to be a Gaian scientist to understand what suffers the most under this system.
We only have one planet , everything we need and have relies on this planet.
Humanity will have to come up with a better system to ensure our survival in the long run.
I'm sorry for not being able to put this into words better , I hope y'all understand what I mean.
I think I understand what you mean, but I was talking about slightly different things. I was talking about political systems, not economical, comunism just slided there somehow. Yes, current economical system is also becoming outdated. Not only because resources are geting sparse, but also because rapid perfomance increase due to robotics and stuff. Capitalism as it is today dates back to the Great Depression, during that time it became what we know today. Thing is, what required 300 people back then needs only 100 people now. Oh, and China, lets not forget China. ANY kind of big factory that is not located in China or 3rd world will have a hard time. Just compare labor cost there and in Europe/Merica. Globalisation can be stingy like that. With how much labor costs, 1st world companies HAVE TO go small or move production to China, no exclusions. Still, you are a little bit too worried. Ecology/depletion is definetly not the bigest problem.
But we are moving off-topic, Detroit wasn't there just because of cars. Exact reason why we are arguing about politics here is because it's government job to keep such things from happening. No matter how good economic system is, without government to support it WILL collapse. And dont think American government is ready to shift economical system, but they are far more willing to promise something to their voters. What I mean is, its useless to try to fix economy with current government.
P.S. Scandinavia, hmm, thats good one. Except I cant think of anything they actually produce. Natural riches, yes. Banking system, yes. But i dont know anything produced there. Wages can also be stingy. Half the reason Europe is facing crisis now is because of overblown wages. And lets not forget Scandinavia has problems dealing with migaration, major ones that is.
(04-23-2013, 11:29 AM)Echo 7-7 Wrote: When "roleplay" around you seems to be diminishing... all you can do is be a new beacon of roleplay to light up everyone else's interactions.
I think politics nowadays are driven by economy.
It's one of the things wrong with society.
funfact: Japan has the lowest gap between rich and poor , and it's people have the most money to spend per person.
It's also the country with the highest suicide rate in the world.
I guess money doesn't buy happiness.
Hereby I end the off topic posts from my side, this is a very interesting thread on the disco forum though , kudos to the mods for not closing it!
But in this case the state would collect the difference instead of some corporations that does not pay taxes like Apple or similar.
Not good for the lobbyist controlled governments- no money from corps then...
America political and economical system is parasitic and wrong- take it or leave it I wont explain why- the game forum is not the proper place for that, I just hope that the American people see that and change their ways.
I would post a video to support my claim:
If we start to comment properly about America the mods would need to close the topic since a lot of Americans will get offended.
America Economy cannot exist only in the Silicon Valley with couple mega-rich tax dogging corporations that employ only small bunch of people.
Meanwhile in Detroit- couple years ago there were houses for sale ranging from 1 $ to 5000 $. The same corporations that managed to create the devastation there are just silently buying bulk whole blocks property for pennies from the people with foreclosed homes. The Neo-liberarist system in force in USA is milking the people several times that way.
Before you call me USA hater- EU is not in much better position- they try to create USA mk2 silently and slowly because USA way is the best way to control the masses:
Otherwise for the rest Joey is quite right. Personally I am not left but I am not right as well I am rather fan of the third way: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Way
Also a huge fan of Keynes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesianism
There are solutions available but they are not in the interest of the people with the big money.
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
(07-20-2013, 07:29 PM)Govedo13 Wrote: How to compete with China when the US and EU wages are really higher?
Simple- put customs taxes that equals the difference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercantilism
I just have to highlight how naive that is, Govedo.
The US and European countries were and are still corporation-driven, and said corporations often have significant say in what countries decide, particularly in the economic sphere. Do you really think they'll let regulations pass that will increase the bottom like for them, cutting into their margins? I'd say not likely. You might say, "what about the home countries?" Thing is, that's the product of a more connected world than ever before, and capitalism at work naturally. The same principles that allowed European and American economies to grow in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries are working here, as wealth and opportunities flow into the third world because resources are simply cheaper there. Of course, keep in mind that the top line remains firmly Western, so the ones losing out in this process are...well, the general western public.
Solution? Damn if I know. I'm not a smart person and those issues are extremely complex. In a way though, this is taking us towards a more equal world in some respects. Most of you, living in the West and developed countries feel that you're losing out, your economies are tanking etc. On the flip side, Many Asian and some African economies are blossoming, their people getting access to stuff for the first time that you've taken for granted most of your lives.
(07-20-2013, 07:22 PM)madvillain Wrote: I think politics nowadays are driven by economy.
It's one of the things wrong with society.
funfact: Japan has the lowest gap between rich and poor , and it's people have the most money to spend per person.
It's also the country with the highest suicide rate in the world.
I guess money doesn't buy happiness.
Hereby I end the off topic posts from my side, this is a very interesting thread on the disco forum though , kudos to the mods for not closing it!
I was debating with myself should I bring Japan up or not, so here it goes:
1) Intelectual property is a lot more expensive in Japan. For example some games cost 100$
2) It got longest average life span. Fish is great.
3) It's still one of the most tradition driven society on the planet, stereotypes everywhere!
4) They don't have their own army, just a little bit of amercan.
5) Definitly most NPNP country in the world, none other country deal with even half the shit the do.
6) I guess they don't care about the rest of the world anymore.
7) Japan is VERY corrupted, connections mean a LOT there. Somehow it works out in the end and japanese don't mind at all.
Japan is prime example that it's not system that is most imporant, but people. Japan should never be compared as a whole to the rest of the world, Japanese are just that different. Still, if there is a country to learn something from, it's Japan.
(04-23-2013, 11:29 AM)Echo 7-7 Wrote: When "roleplay" around you seems to be diminishing... all you can do is be a new beacon of roleplay to light up everyone else's interactions.
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) ![[Image: zElBwT7.png]](https://i.imgur.com/zElBwT7.png)
