Can we please have some clarity in Inverness?

[Jayce]

discoverymap.png

Pretty clear that it is independent system like Cortez or Coronado.

^^

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[AceofSpades]

Heya Pilots,

Thank yah for the opinions and votes. I wanted to clean up one confusing bit quick:

That Inverness isn't listed as Bretonian ZoI is certainly new to me, and distressing.

That's the entire point, it hasn't changed. Inverness still is considered within the Bretonian ZOI

I intend just to discuss that point, it is indeed still under the current Bretonian ZOI.



In regards to this, I appreciate you offering to help out.

I'm not entirely sure as to the what and to whom the Junker's have negositated with in the Bretonian goverment but if you feel that comm posts arn't doing the job then you're always welcome to contact me directly. Since there isn't any department within Bretonia that deals with people wanting to buy systems these things tend circle around a little.

It would be excellent and I would thank you if ye were able to make such negotiations possible. Though over the course of last month (May) there were a series of events that led to Bretonian attention and patrols being drawn to the Inverness system. Discussions primarily between the BAF and JT/Congress took place regarding station registration, payment, and also the purchase of Inverness. It was originally during these resolutions that Great.Fox indicated that discussions regarding the system's purchase could only take place after things were in order in the area.

However, unfortunately, the follow-up response we have dealt with since making the proper registration and payment to the BAF can be summarized as..

All attempts on myself to work with such are met with a massive "No". So dont count on it in the near future or future.

Independant it may be. But its still under Bretonian Jurisdiction.

..the shaft. Which is not very conducive to friendly behavior nor progressive Roleplay, and therefore after waiting patiently for over a month, the Junkers are seeking to bring this issue to light by other means.



*Also of course, because this is the fate we fear awaits all neurotic, impatient Junkers from Inverness who are left waiting endlessly for their property rights-- 1:17-1:24 which is a gateway to 1:31-1:48

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[5:57:11 PM] InfernalTater (Lewis) [Formerly TLI-Inferno]:meanwhile, Aces 'I don't always miss my destinations, but when I do, I'm on the other side of house space.'

Seriously nerf Junkers.

Shoot to Thrill

[myg0t33]

It would be excellent and I would thank you if ye were able to make such negotiations possible. Though over the course of last month (May) there were a series of events that led to Bretonian attention and patrols being drawn to the Inverness system. Discussions primarily between the BAF and JT/Congress took place regarding station registration, payment, and also the purchase of Inverness. It was originally during these resolutions that Great.Fox indicated that discussions regarding the system's purchase could only take place after things were in order in the area.

However, unfortunately, the follow-up response we have dealt with since making the proper registration and payment to the BAF can be summarized as..

Independant it may be. But its still under Bretonian Jurisdiction.
..the shaft. Which is not very conducive to friendly behavior nor progressive Roleplay, and therefore after waiting patiently for over a month, the Junkers are seeking to bring this issue to light by other means.

You complain that you have waited for a whole month from a response/resolution to you owning Inverness. Have a look at the links below.
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=113544
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=116089

The BPA contacted the Junkers on 21/3/14 about your illegal Bases. After a long run around, from you, in which the Junkers admitted they owned the Bases, to 'Oh no we don't somebody else does', to utter silence, then to 'well yes we do own them'. They were finally legalised on the 8/6/14.

By my reckoning it took 11 weeks 2 days to get something simple as 2 Bases recognised as Legal. Seeing as they were Legalised on the 8th of June and it is the 28th today that is just short of 3 weeks since everything was successfully resolved.

Just because things are not moving as fast as you like, now that it is something you want, doesn't mean that nothing is happening.



.

[AceofSpades]

The BPA contacted the Junkers on 21/3/14 about your illegal Bases. After a long run around, from you, in which the Junkers admitted they owned the Bases, to 'Oh no we don't somebody else does', to utter silence, then to 'well yes we do own them'. They were finally legalised on the 8/6/14.

By my reckoning it took 11 weeks 2 days to get something simple as 2 Bases recognised as Legal. Seeing as they were Legalised on the 8th of June and it is the 28th today that is just short of 3 weeks since everything was successfully resolved.

Just because things are not moving as fast as you like, now that it is something you want, doesn't mean that nothing is happening.

I couldn't seem to find the official purchase request that had been made.. nor another directed post.


However here is one right in the middle of that timetable, right in the middle of May--when i mentioned the action ensued. This post clearly states ownership, and even includes an address on the Junkyard for which to receive further requests for information. Another point at which diplomacy was established.
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread...=inverness

This is another post made around the same time. This one regarding a siege conducted on the stations by BPA forces
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread...light=moon
This admittedly was a foreseeable response after the delay from late March, and forced immediate resolution by the Junkers, so payment and negotiation with the BAF was established at this point. However the siege was initiated by a specific BPA Officer in an unfitting manner, and the only further delay to establishing docking rights with the BPA had to due with a refusal to clear that specific Officer who led the siege, which was resolved when he was finally given the permanent boot from Disco for his overall aggressive behavior. As you can see, the second posted link is a communication from the BPA, which happens to be when the final resolution of said BPA issue took place, resolved shortly the original negotiations occurred.



So while I understand how some people might suppose that this is an unwarranted conversation, I assure you we have been working very hard for a long time at this, dealing with some serious frustrations along the way.
For something that seems like such a common sense issue, it has resulted in a ridiculous amount of grief, it would be nice to get it resolved.

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[5:57:11 PM] InfernalTater (Lewis) [Formerly TLI-Inferno]:meanwhile, Aces 'I don't always miss my destinations, but when I do, I'm on the other side of house space.'

Seriously nerf Junkers.

Shoot to Thrill

[Thunderer]

Where is junk, there are the Junkers.

Oh, wait. Is there junk in Inverness?

But, if Bretonia received something significant in return, I wouldn't oppose at all!
For example, I would really like to take Freeport 1 for myself Bretonia, but I don't have anything to give to Silver, its administrator, in return and I don't want to powergame. It is not nice, taking something that is not yours without permission of its owner. I think we call it stealing.

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Bretonian Treaty Database Bretonian Armed Forces Recruitment Center
Bretonian Charter of Interstellar Law Bretonian Secrets Act

[Lythrilux]

Junkers can't rise up and say "Hey! This is my system!". Especially when there's a neighbouring house or other force nearby.
They have every right to claim it, however Bretonia has every right to inject it's influence into the system whenever they feel like it, regardless if that screws over the Junkers or not. The Junkers are expendable.

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[Sath]

Let it be an independant system. That would be a better judgement for both Bretonians and Junkers who are fighting here. Also, if that is an independant system, it will become a primary spot for smuggling, since there are junker bases there. So, the Brets can't extend their rules and stuff over Inverness.

[myg0t33]

I couldn't seem to find the official purchase request that had been made.. nor another directed post.


However here is one right in the middle of that timetable, right in the middle of May--when i mentioned the action ensued. This post clearly states ownership, and even includes an address on the Junkyard for which to receive further requests for information. Another point at which diplomacy was established.
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread...=inverness

This is another post made around the same time. This one regarding a siege conducted on the stations by BPA forces
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread...light=moon
This admittedly was a foreseeable response after the delay from late March, and forced immediate resolution by the Junkers, so payment and negotiation with the BAF was established at this point. However the siege was initiated by a specific BPA Officer in an unfitting manner, and the only further delay to establishing docking rights with the BPA had to due with a refusal to clear that specific Officer who led the siege, which was resolved when he was finally given the permanent boot from Disco for his overall aggressive behavior. As you can see, the second posted link is a communication from the BPA, which happens to be when the final resolution of said BPA issue took place, resolved shortly the original negotiations occurred.

So while I understand how some people might suppose that this is an unwarranted conversation, I assure you we have been working very hard for a long time at this, dealing with some serious frustrations along the way.
For something that seems like such a common sense issue, it has resulted in a ridiculous amount of grief, it would be nice to get it resolved.

Ok lets clarify some things here. If you look at the First Post in the link provided.
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread...=inverness

You will notice that the date starts at 21st of March and is addressed to the Junker Congress HC. It was due to talking to people who were there at the time with JC tags who admitted that The Junkyard and the Sigma Guard Station were Junker Bases. It was also stated that we wanted to know who was the owner of the 3rd Base (Dyke Space Port). It was also mentioned in that Post that we would waiver some fines if the Bases became Legalised (this was because we knew ooRP that they had been moved by the Admins in a previous update and weren't actually built there).

We were quickly contacted by Ortog Ashford, Congress Director for Bretonia and a dialogue was set up (2nd post in that thread).

In the 3rd Post of that thread we agreed to have JC pay a small Administration Fee for the sterling help that the JC were giving Bretonia.

In the 4th Post we find out that Dyke Space Port was also a JC Base.

In the 5th Post we have agreed to accept from all three Bases a Fee of 75 million Credits as a small Admin Fee. This is exactly 7 days after the first post. Everything looks rosy and the Bases will appear on the Bretonian Register. Also on this date Dyke's Admin Fee is paid.
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread...pid1506334

On the 28th of April Dyke Space Port fully complied to Bretonian Law.
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread...pid1520127

Post 6 jumps to the 7th of May (47 days after the first post to JC HC). This was stating that The Junkyard and Sigma Guard Station still had not paid the small Fee and complied to Bretonian Law.

On the 8th of May (post 7) we get a message from James J McKenna, Deputy Arbiter,.:j:..

Post 8, dated 9th of May (49 days or 7 weeks since we started) we made the attack declaration. This is a huge difference, in time, from what others have given before attacking Bases.

In the end the siege wasn't a very serious one as we turned up mostly with Bombers. It would have taken hours to kill your Base even without Repair Materials.

When your ships started appearing from the Base I was the one telling the others not to shoot them. One of your decided to attack the sieging Force in a Bomber and was promptly put down after he refused to stop attacking. This was the only 'fatality' from that encounter from PvP.

We didn't even put in a report when he remained in the system afterwards. No report was ever put in for all the ooRP rage that came our way.

Most of the time, once your guys turned up out of the woodwork, I was trying to RP with them trying to get them to agree to register the Bases. I hardly fired a shot at your Bases. I was told quite a few times that we could do what we want with the Bases as they were going to rage quit.

After a time, somebody with a cool head, agreed to register the Bases and I called off the attack immediately.

In your post above you have quite often mixed up BAF and the BPA. Whilst you thought you were making advances with BAF, the BPA are the ones who control the Registration of the Bases and enforce the Law regarding them. So just giving BAF access to your Bases was not ever going to work as the Law is quite explicit, which was pointed out to you on many occasions.

Complaining to the BAF about BPA Officers was never going to get you anywhere as they have no Authority over the BPA. I did in PMs talk to one of your members about harassment that I had heard of Junkers from a certain person. I was told that it was ok as both you (as the Junkers) and him had got what you wanted out of it. If you have any problems please feel free to contact the BPA HC.

EDIT. As for RP (on the Forums) The BPA and BAF have done more RP about these 2 Stations than the Owners have since they have moved to Inverness. Seemingly the hard work that you mention is all done within house between your small Group. Hence I was told that none of the people involved, at the time of the Siege, knew how to operate the Forums. That is when I suggested that they contact the rest of the JC for advice.

Edit 2. We have bent over backwards to accommodate you in this and as I mentioned previously it took over 11 weeks to arrive at the Legalisation of your Bases. What more could we do? And seriously do you think that offering the Bretonian Government 2 Billion Credits for the purchase of Inverness is reasonable when you see that a Core 4 Base goes for at least 4 Billion?
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[Highland Laddie]

The Junkers have already and still enjoy a large amount of autonomy in their affairs in Inverness, but it is still Bretonian territory.

What exactly do you really want, Ace? Just a map that says that it belongs to you? Or do you just not want to have to give the BAF/BPA access to your PoBs for them to remain "legal" ?

If you want the system for yourselves...like you have Puerto Rico, you're either going to have to offer a substantial amount more money to the Bret government, or you're going to have to fight them for it. Simple as that.

And even if you wanted to use the excuse that Bretonia is stretched too thin to put significant force towards Inverness...it wouldn't necessarily take a HUGE force to enforce their will in Inverness...unless you really want to prove to the contrary.

[SnakThree]

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