I will play Devil's Advocate however. The bases currently in minefields are some of the oldest POB's in the game, meaning they have had their purpose and locations RP'd by long standing members in this Community. Not wanting to destroy or severely alter this RP, the Admins decided to allow existing POBs to be grandfathered in when the current 15k rule was established.
I support the rule change, for the sake of improved gameplay, however it would be wise to consider what effects said change would have on members who may be forced to have their POB's moved. Maybe some sort of compensation to soften the blow might be warranted?
(10-25-2016, 07:54 PM)Garrett Jax Wrote: I will play Devil's Advocate however. [...] Maybe some sort of compensation to soften the blow might be warranted?
It would send a badly screwed up message to all those who have done the right thing years earlier and moved their bases voluntarily after it became clear that they are damaging gameplay. If I was the owner of Puerto (the Sair blocking base that relocated a few months ago), I would be cursing if this ever happened and those that just did not move were rewarded now.
In my opinion, it is impossible to reward those few remaining detrimental POBs, as it would create an entirely paradox situation of rewarding those who in reality deserve it the least.
Jack, you imply wrongdoing where none exists. I know you requested to have your own base moved because you felt it was harming gameplay, and that was noble, because you considered the greater good. It doesn't mean that other players, who were well within the rules, are doing the wrong thing by not voluntarily moving their bases.
I understand your point about incurring anger over a lack of reward for those who have moved their bases voluntarily, but I can't recall any particular request from a Community member to have their base moved, that didn't receive at least the 'reward' of being able to upgrade their Core, given that they were now out of a mineable field.. However, it's been awhile since I served, and I'm not privy to the particulars of each individual base. My empathy for base owners is simply kicking in here and I'd hate to lose out on valued members of the Community with this rule change.
I'd gan along with that, as long as PoB's are moved from all other bases & solars too, just to be fair aye.
Can't have anyone stealing from the rules eh.
How about all the people that used to enjoy playing the game in areas where area-of-denial bases have been bullying players? What kind of compensation do we get?
Why over-complicate things to the point where it's silly? If a PoB is harmful to gameplay dynamics, move it. Simple as.
I don't get why it's come to the point where the community has to petition for this. I think if you browse back through the forum history, the first complaints and detailed explanations of why/how PoBs could be harmful to gameplay were up just a few weeks after the update hit. Here we are, years later petitioning for a true no-brainer.
(10-25-2016, 10:26 PM)Mímir Wrote: Compensation? For what exactly?
How about all the people that used to enjoy playing the game in areas where area-of-denial bases have been bullying players? What kind of compensation do we get?
How bout a homemade cookie? I got a nice recipe for some oatmeal raisin. More than worth your troubles.
(10-25-2016, 03:07 PM)Tyria Regalia Wrote: So, Falster, sitting in a field capable of mining is exempt from these restrictions? Beaumont Spire? Danzig? Granted, with the elimination of scrap metal mining those two pass muster. But I'll bet BS went to Core 4 before scrap metal was eliminated. I'm sure there are a half dozen others that are providing area denial to my water and oxygen miner. So around Manhattan is supposed to be a haven, fine, I can't argue with that. But Junkers, who don't have access to Cap ships (except through special roleplay), can't protect a place they call home from every tom, dick and harry with a grudge?
Doing away with POB's entirely would cut the forum activity by a good fraction. People gaining access, making trade deals, and bartering for resources seem to be some of the more frequent posts. WIthout POBs what would people do with their capital ships? I'm sure the LN would park one by every known jump hole, scan whoever comes through, and destroy them if they are carrying anything illegal. (Actually I'm surprised that's not already a thing instead of sitting at Norfolk chatting.) I only say LN because out of house militaries they seem to be the most active.
Antonio already did a good job of dissecting this post, but I thought I should respond as well.
First of all, the problem with bases in mining fields is not that they are easily used as mining storage. The problem is that they allow ships mining within them to dock and escape pirates very easily, and since they're "traders", they can just log back in later and start again, once their counter-metagaming tools tell them that it's safe. By pushing the mining bases outside the fields, it allows for at least some amount of competition, and keeps stuff like defense platforms outside the mining field (in the case of non-existent competitive mining fields).
Thus, stuff like Beaumont, Danzig, and Falster aren't even a problem, because you'll find it very difficult to find anyone sitting in the scrap field waiting to be pirated. I'll also remind you that Beaumont Spire was originally built on top of Beaumont Base (hence the name), but was then moved because of a wackjob conspiracy theory that the JM would "take over the base" and shoot Congress ships. (Although, I can't tell if you're arguing that Beaumont Spire is an offender or not, because then you argue that Junkers should be able to build weapons platforms. What?)
Also, hang on. Is this "Liberty is going to massacre all the Junkers" meme going to die yet? This [insert choice word here] got old in 2014 and somehow it's STILL being peddled around as some kind of thing that's "definitely going to happen", the Congress going so far as to do things that force the Liberty forces to actually engage Junkers, creating an almost self-fulfilling prophecy. If that's what you want, just tell us, christ. Enough with the liberty-enforced junker genocide meme. No, we wouldn't park a capital ship on every jump hole, because not only would that be a massive waste of time, but we also don't have that many players who want to die of boredom.
p.s.: as stated in skype numerous times, if anyone else mentions LIS as a "terrible base" deserving of being removed, I'd like to again ask what exactly LIS has done in terms of harming anyone. It's not blocking any routes of travel (guess what, just eject from the lane if you're hostile - or CRUISE AROUND), it's not insta-killing people coming out of jump holes, it's not serving as a quickdock point for anyone escaping from pirates - it's an old relic that's a great part of [LN] history, one that helps us build some equipment sometimes, and one that has guns sitting all around Manhattan to keep idiots from trying to siege it or park their Outcast special snowflake dreadnought in low Manhattan orbit (not that you can't do that anyway).
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