Dublin Miners Pub Poll

[Karlotta]

The idea of a freepub for miners is still sound. I do think there is a need for something more flexible in between a faction allied base and a freeport type situation.

As I said in the part that you removed from the quote, Eldorado is free for all to dock except for people who will cause trouble. It's also outlined in the post I made 2 days before you built your base and registered the Paddy forum account (I have the impression you have an older one too?), and before you made a... remarkably similar... concept for your base.

The difference is that I engaged in the slow and frustrating process of negotiating with involved factions to achieve a "Freeport"-like status, and didnt build it too close to the field out of respect for other people's interests. Most Freeports are Zoner and not Freelancer bases, Freeport 4 was an IMG base, and Battleship Hood isnt much different from a Freeport. The reason I havent officially opened it for more people is because the Mollies threatened to blow it up if I did. But since they dont seem to be interested in ever changing that and the whole faction combined seems to be less active than me alone, I'm in the process of finding other ways to open it.

It needs to be close enough to be able to return to the pub, log onto your transport and then fly out and scoop up the ore. 15k out is useless for that. I also see your point on miners doing a runner. Make a complaint to the pub and they probably would get their docking rights revoked.

The thing is that bases which keep people safe from pirates and start singlehandedly "owning" entire fields (like any base within 15 k would, and in Dublin it means owning all mining in the system) always end up being blown up sooner or later.

30k distance isnt so bad to fly through in a Hegemon, leaves pirates a fair chance, the proximity to the Hood gives additional trade options, the race track gives additional RP options, and the distance to the mining field keeps teamwork rewarding. If a BMM Clydesdale, which is beyond competition in terms of mining bonus, is able to mine alone with short trips, teamwork loses its usefulness completely.

No offense to your RP skills, but the reason your base was active isn't because of them, it was because it's smack in the mining field, it's letting BMM dock while pretending to be a junker base (junkers can pirate BMM), it's using the same buy/sell concept that I had already established there, it took over people who I helped mine there before, and has "//pm paddy for access" in the base name.

For all the reasons above I would again suggest that we collaborate instead of trying to steal ideas and "customers" from each other.

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[Paddy.]

Are we not gonna talk about how detrimental PoBs in mining fields are?
Antonio put it will in this...
Area denial POBs are one of the most detrimental things the game ever had, slightly behind jump trading.

People remember this?

Jack H also brought up a major problem with mining field PoBs:

Any POB that allows for the fast and easy denial for interaction harms the gameplay. The harm is bigger when there are guns, but it is already there by the sheer existence inside 15k of the mining field.

Also this

Can I also say that I've noticed you put ooRP stuff in your base's name like (PM Paddy for docking rights) or some garbage?

I think I can comfortably speak for the entire community when I say please do not do that.

[/quote]

Two things...
1. A POB according to the server rules can be built in a minefield, but it can only be a Core 1. However House law needs to be applied also. In Dublin, 10km is the closest you can get for a Core 1/Core 2 base. Further out for a higher core POB, A core 1 FREEPORT styled pub is not designed for area denial. It is the opposite.
2. A good pirate can work for the 'tax' they want in that 10k space. Also they tend to go for the big transports further near the the system JH and JG's etc for bigger taxes.

Other factors.
1. You fail to realise the increase of activity this Pub generated in Dublin. Both lawful and unlawful. The game benefitted.
2. It means a lot to a solo operator to be able to mine when there are no other players around. Not worth mining if you cannot have a large transport ship to make it economical. Dublin Freepub for Miners WORKED!
3. I don't give a bulls roar about you or anyone being upset about me putting my ingame contact details on my property. No one has pm'd me in forum, and the fact so many pm'd me ingame wanting to have access proves it was successful. Irony, just before I blew her up, I got another ingame pm wanting docking rights in Dublin Pub.

Paddy (Miss)

[Laz]

Two things...
1. A POB according to the server rules can be built in a minefield, but it can only be a Core 1. However, House law needs to be applied also. In Dublin, 10km is the closest you can get for a Core 1/Core 2 base. Further out for a higher core POB, A core 1 FREEPORT styled pub is not designed for area denial. It is the opposite.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. The threads I linked were good evidence of that and how it can just be bad overall. If you want a more in-depth answer look there, yet if I were to look at your case specifically:

You claim plenty of people have docking rights to your base and that would lead one to believe those are the people most commonly frequenting the field (not all mind you, but some definitely). This creates the issue of a pirate trying to catch some traders will be seen and they can dock before the pirate is in range to give a proper demand. This grants traders immunity from being PvP dead for combat docking and therefore discourages some amount of pirate activity. This will not be every scenario but is some of them. (I know this because I saw some traders doing it when I was getting filled up in the mining field).

2. It means a lot to a solo operator to be able to mine when there are no other players around. Not worth mining if you cannot have a large transport ship to make it economical.

3. I don't give a bulls roar about you or anyone being upset about me putting my ingame contact details on my property. No one has pm'd me in forum, and the fact so many pm'd me ingame wanting to have access proves it was successful. Irony, just before I blew her up, I got another ingame pm wanting docking rights in Dublin Pub.

One of your main points about this "pub" is that it's encouraging RP and activity. However, the ooRP extension you've added, along with the overall purpose of the base discourages it from my perspective.

Firstly, the ooRP extension you add to your base discourages RP interactions by allowing people docking rights without ever having to actual RP with you for it. From my perspective, people simply ask and receive. This takes out a potential interaction where people would acquire this.

Secondly, I refer to this point you made:

Dublin Miners Pub[/color] was set up as a proof of concept. Initially, it was to enable solo players, particularly in the time zones that do not have many players on, to mine effectively without breaking the server rules. (Multiboxing etc).

This seems to be the polar opposite to generating more interactions as you are allowing people to cut out the need for miners in the fields most of the time. By allowing people to mine solo you cut out the middleman, so to speak, and this by extension takes away interaction - the thing you are claiming to provide.

I could go on, but this is already a wall of text and gives a minor amount of insight into the problems of mining field PoBs. As I said before, you could look in those other threads for some much more developed points. The issues I've mentioned here could be mostly avoided by simply putting the base one system over.

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[Paddy.]

Firstly, the ooRP extension you add to your base discourages RP interactions by allowing people docking rights without ever having to actual RP with you for it. From my perspective, people simply ask and receive. This takes out a potential interaction where people would acquire this.


[/quote]

Who says Dublin Miners Pub (Docking rights /pm Paddy [msg]) is ooRP? I don't. You might. It is a matter of personal opinion. And I actually don't care if the naysayers don't appreciate it. It may be ugly as a Junker flying a pirate transport, but it was effective.

If they pm me ingame, they are in RP, I am in RP, as they are asking for docking rights on my pub. Your opinion is that it is not in RP and it is only just an opinion. That is the whole purpose of advertising my 'wares'. Would it surprise you that many paid the 35million for the right to dock on Dublin? Bait and hook... great Junker selling technique.

Yo ho HO!

Paddy, the commercial pirate.

[Laz]

If they pm me ingame, they are in RP, I am in RP, as they are asking for docking rights on my pub. Your opinion is that it is not in RP and it is only just an opinion. That is the whole purpose of advertising my 'wares'. Would it surprise you that many paid the 35million for the right to dock on Dublin? Bait and hook... great Junker selling technique.

In my eyes, and at least a few others from what I can gather, you're still cutting out interaction. You're pushing visible interaction away in favour of RP that no one else can view due to its nature of being in PMs.

Who says Dublin Miners Pub (Docking rights /pm Paddy [msg]) is ooRP?

The fact that it contains a console command makes it ooRP. I've never seen anyone act as if the / commands are inRP.

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[Paddy.]

If they pm me ingame, they are in RP, I am in RP, as they are asking for docking rights on my pub. Your opinion is that it is not in RP and it is only just an opinion. That is the whole purpose of advertising my 'wares'. Would it surprise you that many paid the 35million for the right to dock on Dublin? Bait and hook... great Junker selling technique.

In my eyes, and at least a few others from what I can gather, you're still cutting out interaction. You're pushing visible interaction away in favour of RP that no one else can view due to its nature of being in PMs.

Who says Dublin Miners Pub (Docking rights /pm Paddy [msg]) is ooRP?

The fact that it contains a console command makes it ooRP. I've never seen anyone act as if the / commands are inRP.

Wow... I am an original thinker, who with the inspiration that God has given me used /pm for RP. I have always used the ingame /pm in that way. And who says it cannot be used for RP? We use forums all the time for RP and that isn't in the game now is it?

Using the console command as a Sirius Wide Web isn't ooRP if it is used for RP. I think you don't realise how RP useful it can be! Lighten up. Maybe you have learnt a new tool to use.

Why am I being crucified for being creative, who finds different ways to bring vitality and new concepts to the game! RP is all about imagination and creativity. So, God has blessed me more abundantly with inspired thinking, so let's rejoice and hope that it is contagious.

Paddy.

[Banned player t202085]

Bring something back. Eldorado is charging 4.5k a piece.

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[Laz]

Wow... I am an original thinker, who with the inspiration that God has given me used /pm for RP. I have always used the ingame /pm in that way. And who says it cannot be used for RP? We use forums all the time for RP and that isn't in the game now is it? Using the console command as a Sirius Wide Web isn't ooRP if it is used for RP. I think you don't realise how RP useful it can be! Lighten up. Maybe you have learnt a new tool to use.

Yet again, you misunderstand my point here. I'm saying that by using this method you are removing, at least in my eyes, a key part of the game that allows others to witness and participate in the actions that a PoB would generate.

The steps you are doing seems to cut these out like with the solo mining and PM docking rights. The forums are an ideal medium for this as it allows others to actually see what you post and therefore it contributes to the overall experience within the Discovery Gaming Community. I remember having a similar discussion a really long time ago with @Foxglove (I think) about skype RP and when people do large amounts of faction RP in skype chats that never reaches the forums. It's the same principle really.

To talk about that last point, I've seen..err.. attempts at similar things in the past, but nothing as 'obvious' which is why I brought it up (or rather continued the point after @Misfit first mentioned it). The old attempts were just as dysfunctional.

Why am I being crucified for being creative

You're not, this is just my opinion that I'm giving if it comes across that way that's the way I talk. That being said, while I don't agree with what you're doing in the way it plays out and affects the game, I do commend your attempts to create something unique, even if it does take its inspiration or roots from elsewhere.

Edit:

What do you think

You did ask for feedback after all.

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[Paddy.]

Bring something back. Eldorado is charging 4.5k a piece.

Well... that says something.
So... you think the BPA had some Corporate arm twisting applied to them? Lets see... You could mine gold ore profitably and make over 1 million for a Clydesdale by selling to the pub (1900 credits). 40 million an hour. You can buy from the pub at the same rate and make 36million in a train selling it to Berlin in 20 minutes not counting the carry-back profit.

Was Dublin pub sticking it to the corporate magnates bottom lines then? Sounds like a behind-the-scenes agenda! Doubt if I could be allowed to truck it to Eldorado and sell it for 4.5k a piece.

Yo ho HO!

Paddy

[Karlotta]

ho ho ho

Access granted. (not in your corporate magnate conspiracy BMM clydesdale though, unlike your place, Ms Goldilocks)

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