-keep out of omicron 100!-

[Tenacity]

it's quite clear at this point that baltar isnt going to listen to reason, I agree with scorch - lock the thread. He's taken it to nothing but flaming.

None of our bs or independent order pilots speak out of character when guarding 100. We dont hound people and pvp whore just for the hell of it.

If we see someone in omicron major, a private message is sent warning them that they are entering restricted Order space. If they proceed into 100, they've violated that warning already, and deserve to die for it.

If we see someone who is not an order or ally already in omicron 100, they are asked to identify themselves and state their reasons for being there. If they dont give a sufficient excuse, they're ordered out of the system - and noncompliance gets them shot at.

Nobody is allowed to use that system as a trading shortcut without the order's authorization. That's it, bottom line, end of discussion.

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[timmychen]

If you want a thread to die, stop posting in it. Kinda hypocritical for me to say that, but I thought you guys should know.

[Baltar]

we update our roster monthly, we have had a few members join since that last update. <-- Good to know.

And like I said, most avoid this thread because it's pointless, really. I'm just replying because it bothers me that there's actually a discussion about this. <-- You can thank Tenacity for authoring it. You can't go on thinking a post like his would go unchallenged.

So because of that, I'd like an admin or mod to please lock this silly topic that's coming nowhere. <-- Agreed.

And like I said, we have lives, I wasn't too happy to take a studying break and find this... <-- Thank you Tenacity.

edit- and for the last time, I have personally asked Order indies to follow the rules of Bs| in that system, so go ahead and yell at me, see where that gets you. <-- They can follow your rules ... but indies are not protected by them. They are still "traditional" Order. As such, they can't kill a trader with LEGAL goods. And they're not pirates or terrorists. They cannot act like terrorists just because they have an Order IFF and ID.

And that 30 second rule, to me I only give them the 30 seconds once, if they come again the next day, too bad, you got the seconds the day before and a warning, probably more than one. <-- But you still give them 30 seconds. You don't waste them on the spot do you?

I don't argue with your right to do that, in fact given how OORP the alaska route is for anyone, I heartily encourage it.

Swiss, whilst you can say they can follow the guard system rules, they must still abide by server rules, Bs| only have to RP the encounter, they don't have to scan for ID and can smoke traders in their cruisers. Indies unfortunately shouldn't be doing it. Although if Kuraine's ID reforms go through you may find that it becomes much esaier for indy order folks to actually enforce the system rules.

Don't worry Del ... there's always those elitists that are above the rules. Alaska is a completely useless system on Disco because SA and Bs| have taken control of it. Nobody can "own" Alaska ... but oh well ... a "select" few people on Discovery are allowed in certain systems. They'll get their capships out to enforce it too.

By the way SwissScorch ... if you have the indies follow the rules of Bs| ... do they have rank and ship limitations? Otherwise ... what's the flipping point ... I'd welcome a non-RP capship in to defend my turf too. As Tenacity has already mentioned (in the other post) he doesn't join factions because he doesn't like ship limitations. So ... by letting him in 100 ... you're approving what even your faction members are not allowed to do. Why do you even have a rank structure if you don't enforce it?

Thanks scorch, I try. Despite being an Indy, I readily follow any orders from upper Bs| members when asked, and readily offer advice and jobs to newer/lower ranked Bs| members when they've got nothing to do.

I may not have the tag (and with good reason, I dont want to give up what I've worked hard for just to join a faction) - but I still work for black squadron directly, and I follow their rules. <-- Yup ... you like that capship. Why role play with a faction when you can do what you want ... and still have the faction back you up. Ironic ... having your cake and eating it too.

See swissScorch there? He's got at least four characters in black squadron and is one of their upper ranking members. I think only Dboy ranks higher than him as the faction creator. <-- Yup ... good attention to detail. I already mentioned SwissScorch ... but there are more in this thread in "disagreement" than supporting you.


Read the post right above yours, swissScorch has supported all of our actions against smugglers and traders in omicron 100, despite being independent of black squadron. this arguing really isnt getting you anywhere. <-- Yup ... but be cautious SwissScorch. You don't wanna get the entire faction in a pickle because you let indies take over.

The second a player sets foot in omicron 100, they are considered a priority threat by the order - black squadron or otherwise. No attack that takes place in that system is OoRP - we're defending the order's shipyards and classified projects. <-- You still have server rules fully in place. And youare not Black Squadron ... even if they give you cart blanch to do what you want ... you still are not Black Squadron and do not enjoy their protection under their rules. You must still follow the server rules.

The people who are out of RP here are the cardamine smugglers who think they can set foot in one of the most heavily gaurded systems in the game with a load of 5000 units of cardamine and stroll through unhindered because "lawl, we're not on the order's enemy list" <-- There is no OORP for smuggling contraband. Smuggling through hostile and questionable turf is EXPECTED. They are trying to get by un-noticed ... that's the actual role play of a smuggler. Geez man ... if a smuggler wasn't trying to get stuff past the authorities, he'd be a law abiding trader. It would be OORP for every lawful faction to immediately fire on a smuggler without scanning him for his cargo first. You may suspect him of smuggling ... but you still have to verify he is actually smuggling.

[Tenacity]

<-- Yup ... you like that capship. Why role play with a faction when you can do what you want ... and still have the faction back you up. Ironic ... having your cake and eating it too.

Do you follow a damn thing about my character's RP?

The second 4.85 is coming out I'm getting rid of the cruiser, downgrading to a gunboat. I'm not out there trying to pvp whore people, and usually I'm against it - I'm terrible at pvp and will readily admit such. However, I wont have smugglers using an OORP route to powergame when I have the ability to stop it.

Yup ... good attention to detail. I already mentioned SwissScorch ... but there are more in this thread in "disagreement" than supporting you.

The only people in disagreement here are the people who are OORP by using that smuggling route to begin with. They're just pissed that they cant get a free pass from new york to alpha anymore.

Now please, shoo, this thread was ended more than 10 pages ago and you keep arguing a point that you cannot win. None of the order, Bs| or independent, are going to let a bunch of smugglers haul cardamine through their guard system. We've broken no server rules, and we dont plan on breaking server rules. We keep in RP while we guard the system, whereas the smugglers do not. Every time I blast someone there I get the same "WTF why'd you shoot me I'm nuetral!!!" crap from them.

Nothing you say here is going to stop myself or any other order character from cleaning up the smugglers or other unwanted players in omicron 100. We're well within our rights and the server rules to do so, you really have nothing to use against us in the matter.


EDIT:

And one other comment to add:

If you really want to bitch about people KOS'ing smugglers or traders, bitch to liberty. They do the same thing in alaska AND zone 21, even against their own navy tagged/id'd players - all within RP because that system contains their house's top secret projects. Omicron 100 is no different, it's our version of alaska and we have even more leeway in defending it against this kind of intrusion because of it's status as a guard system.

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[Heartless]

My last post, I won't bother with this anymore, I am just going to answer questions!

-Bs| rules are superior than standard server rules in Omicron 100, so everyone must obey them, not just Bs|. If you are not following them you are breaking them, if you support them, thank you.

-This post: http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=22991 shows how indies respond to Bs|, in a very good manner.

-Omicron 100 is the Order home, where we have our secrets, new super weapons being developed, cloaking tech, everything, you'd think it be the most secure systems in Sirius.

-Yes, 30 seconds they get... once, they had thier warning

-Indies can fly whatever they want as long as there is an RP basis for it, again here: http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=22991 We have had non-rp Order cap ships and the such and we have gotten rid of them.

-Being in Bs| just gives you more power in the Order. The lowest ranking Bs| member has more power than an Order indie in an Osiris.

-We don't let indies take over, hell we could have extreme restrictions and the such, have you been to Rheinland, interesting place.

-Again, Bs| rules are more superior than Server rules in Omicron 100, not only does Bs| have to enforce and follow them, everyone does.

-It would be OORP for smugglers to go through Omicron 100 and Omicron Major. Why? Nomad infestations, top secret system, no one except the Order is supposed to know about it, heck smugglers should think the order is a terrorist group. If you think about it, most people aren't supposed to know what even Nomads are.

I hope this clears some things up, pm me any more questions you have but I'm done here. Any more pointless discussions and I'll ask an admin/moderator to lock this thread.

Thank you.

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SwissScorch --> Heartless

[Tenacity]

-Being in Bs| just gives you more power in the Order. The lowest ranking Bs| member has more power than an Order indie in an Osiris.

Now this I dont quite agree with in an RP sense, but the rest of it is well explained.

My character, in RP, is the rank of sub commander - second in command of the destroyer I pilot. The commander is aboard as well, and is RP'd seperately quite often, both in game and in my story posts here on the forums.

I have a pretty good understanding of the order, how they run things, and how the command structure works. A -lot- of the brand-new Black squadron recruits (crewman to ensign rank) look up to even us 'indies' in capships, and they should. We may not be part of black squadron, but we do technically outrank them - by however little.

Now, I dont use that as an excuse to go ordering around black squadron members. They do have their own agenda and missions to carry out. However, those low ranked black squadron members often tag along with my ship as escorts, and it's natural to take up command of the group when that occurs - it's called organization. Now, if a higher ranking black squadron member comes online, he's given full command over the group - both the other BS members as well as my own ship and other independents within the group.

If those other independents refuse to follow orders from black squadron they'll get a talking to from me, and maybe even a few shots at their hull for disrespecting a commanding officer.

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[Baltar]

Do you follow a damn thing about my character's RP?

The second 4.85 is coming out I'm getting rid of the cruiser, downgrading to a gunboat. I'm not out there trying to pvp whore people, and usually I'm against it - I'm terrible at pvp and will readily admit such. <-- Curious that you chose to fly for Order in a system where you can kill at will. I absolutely detest any character's role play that would prefer shooting someone in the back than to engage in some form of dialogue ... or who refuses to even say a word or give a warning before opening up the guns. You want me to say everything's cool with restrictions in Omicron 100? Then you gotta be willing to meet the rest of the server half way. I don't like terroristic role play ... unless you have a Terrorist ID.

However, I wont have smugglers using an OORP route to powergame when I have the ability to stop it. <-- There's more OORP with the Diamond/Niobium route than the one passing through Omicron 100. But I don't see you in Sigma 13 doing anything about it. I've got my pirate trying to role play there ... but alas ... I'm always greeted by a bounty hunter in a battle cruiser. NOW complain to me about OORP.

The only people in disagreement here are the people who are OORP by using that smuggling route to begin with. They're just pissed that they cant get a free pass from new york to alpha anymore. <-- Smuggling is smuggling is smuggling. A smuggler is IN CHARACTER when he IS smuggling. Its the authorities job to CATCH the smuggler. According to your objection here. You really would rather everybody be a law abiding trader. Why don't we all just be lawful battle cruisers and beat up on these evil unlawful NPCs. Don't get me wrong ... I have no objections of you intercepting smugglers. But I do not like the way you are doing it. I disagree with your means to an end. I'd much rather you order them to drop the cargo or turn around and head back the way they came. But you will NEVER convince me that KOS (especially on traders and smugglers) is role play. KOS is a loophole excuse to open up your guns. There's no brain cells involved in pulling a trigger if that's the case.

Now please, shoo, this thread was ended more than 10 pages ago and you keep arguing a point that you cannot win. None of the order, Bs| or independent, are going to let a bunch of smugglers haul cardamine through their guard system. We've broken no server rules, and we dont plan on breaking server rules. We keep in RP while we guard the system, whereas the smugglers do not. Every time I blast someone there I get the same "WTF why'd you shoot me I'm nuetral!!!" crap from them. <-- This thread has pretty much become a public fist fight between you and me. Its not been a discussion at all. A discussion would be where we at least agree on something. My objection is to the KOS mentality. Your objection is to traders and smugglers treading on a secret system. Fine ... deal with them ... but don't give me that KOS crap. Because there's no role play in that. Scan them ... demand they drop it or depart Omicron 100 they way they came. Do something BEFORE you open fire. And don't call smuggling OORP ... because it is a smugglers complete role play to try to get past authorities ... otherwise you cannot call it smuggling.

Nothing you say here is going to stop myself or any other order character from cleaning up the smugglers or other unwanted players in omicron 100. We're well within our rights and the server rules to do so, you really have nothing to use against us in the matter. <-- I don't expect anything I say is making it into your head much less going to stop you. You want this discussion to end ... you gotta give me something in return. I need closure. Chase the smugglers and traders all you want ... but don't give me this KOS crap ... especially not on traders and smugglers.

EDIT:

And one other comment to add:

If you really want to bitch about people KOS'ing smugglers or traders, bitch to liberty. They do the same thing in alaska AND zone 21, even against their own navy tagged/id'd players - all within RP because that system contains their house's top secret projects. Omicron 100 is no different, it's our version of alaska and we have even more leeway in defending it against this kind of intrusion because of it's status as a guard system. <-- You really have not read anything I've written have you? I've already made my complaints about Liberty in the past. I've also mentioned them with regard to Alaska here. There are elitists on this server. There are those few 10% on this server that dominate 90% of the role play. And not all of them are in Liberty.

[X-Lancer]

Now this I dont quite agree with in an RP sense, but the rest of it is well explained.

My character, in RP, is the rank of sub commander - second in command of the destroyer I pilot. The commander is aboard as well, and is RP'd seperately quite often, both in game and in my story posts here on the forums.

I have a pretty good understanding of the order, how they run things, and how the command structure works. A -lot- of the brand-new Black squadron recruits (crewman to ensign rank) look up to even us 'indies' in capships, and they should. We may not be part of black squadron, but we do technically outrank them - by however little.

Now, I dont use that as an excuse to go ordering around black squadron members. They do have their own agenda and missions to carry out. However, those low ranked black squadron members often tag along with my ship as escorts, and it's natural to take up command of the group when that occurs - it's called organization. Now, if a higher ranking black squadron member comes online, he's given full command over the group - both the other BS members as well as my own ship and other independents within the group.

If those other independents refuse to follow orders from black squadron they'll get a talking to from me, and maybe even a few shots at their hull for disrespecting a commanding officer.

IMO..not lowest..but like at least a Lt./// for Omicron 100 system business..i agree with Swiss there..

[Baltar]

Now this I dont quite agree with in an RP sense, but the rest of it is well explained.

My character, in RP, is the rank of sub commander - second in command of the destroyer I pilot. The commander is aboard as well, and is RP'd seperately quite often, both in game and in my story posts here on the forums. <-- Sub commander ... self imposed rank? Yup ... gives you rights to a cruiser. Oh well ... such is role play on Disco ... post something in the forums and you can have your dream in-game. People get away with so much by typing a few words in the forums. Hey ... if I type up a role play bio for one of my characters ... I bet I can get away with making a few server rules not apply to me ... that would be cool. NOT!

I have a pretty good understanding of the order, how they run things, and how the command structure works. A -lot- of the brand-new Black squadron recruits (crewman to ensign rank) look up to even us 'indies' in capships, and they should. We may not be part of black squadron, but we do technically outrank them - by however little. <-- I too have an Order indie character. But I would disagree with outranking them. Kinda like me saying I'm a General while not being in the military. Hey ... I'll go with that. Yeah ... my Order indie is a General. Next time you see me in Omicron 100 ... make sure your ship is shining.

Now, I dont use that as an excuse to go ordering around black squadron members. They do have their own agenda and missions to carry out. However, those low ranked black squadron members often tag along with my ship as escorts, and it's natural to take up command of the group when that occurs - it's called organization. Now, if a higher ranking black squadron member comes online, he's given full command over the group - both the other BS members as well as my own ship and other independents within the group. <-- Nice to have the best of both worlds.

If those other independents refuse to follow orders from black squadron they'll get a talking to from me, and maybe even a few shots at their hull for disrespecting a commanding officer. <-- Ooooooh ... I'm nervous now. Tell ya what ... you fire on me (Order vs Order) ... the admins will find a report for an OORP attack.

[Tenacity]

Curious that you chose to fly for Order in a system where you can kill at will. I absolutely detest any character's role play that would prefer shooting someone in the back than to engage in some form of dialogue ... or who refuses to even say a word or give a warning before opening up the guns. You want me to say everything's cool with restrictions in Omicron 100? Then you gotta be willing to meet the rest of the server half way. I don't like terroristic role play ... unless you have a Terrorist ID.

I didnt choose it.

I never set foot in omicron 100 other than to explore before I originally made this post. The reason I stepped up and started blasting smugglers and others in the system was because black squadron claimed to be getting tired of such players using our space as a shortcut, and there are very rarely black squadron members online and available to sit around and guard a system.

Because nobody else was around to do the job, I started to. Since then, more independent and Bs members have started helping me out, patrolling the system when I'm not around or online.

Trust me, Ill prefer to RP over pvp any day, but when it comes to defending a guard system I dont dick around. if you're there without authorization, you get warned and shot at if you do not heed that warning. 9 out of 10 smugglers and others that I warn in that system never have an inkling of RP to them, they just keep trying to fire up cruise engines and pretend I'm not there, until they die - at which point they turn around and do exactly what you're doing here - Bitch that I'm OORP because I shot at them when they didnt want to get shot at. I'm sorry, but you arent allowed free access to every system in the game no matter what faction you're a part of. If you go into a system you shouldnt be in, you should EXPECT to get shot.

There's more OORP with the Diamond/Niobium route than the one passing through Omicron 100. But I don't see you in Sigma 13 doing anything about it. I've got my pirate trying to role play there ... but alas ... I'm always greeted by a bounty hunter in a battle cruiser. NOW complain to me about OORP.

I wont disagree with that, when I had a blood dragon character I did my best to stop the diamond/niobium traders that kept going through chugoku.

however, I dont have that character anymore - I have an order character. Sigma 13 is not a system of interest to the order, and as such It's not a system i'm going to go out of my way to patrol. I'll stick to omicron 100/minor when it comes to stopping smugglers and traders that shouldnt be there - if you've got complaints about the niobium/diamond trade, deal with it yourself!

Smuggling is smuggling is smuggling. A smuggler is IN CHARACTER when he IS smuggling. Its the authorities job to CATCH the smuggler. According to your objection here. You really would rather everybody be a law abiding trader. Why don't we all just be lawful battle cruisers and beat up on these evil unlawful NPCs. Don't get me wrong ... I have no objections of you intercepting smugglers. But I do not like the way you are doing it. I disagree with your means to an end. I'd much rather you order them to drop the cargo or turn around and head back the way they came. But you will NEVER convince me that KOS (especially on traders and smugglers) is role play. KOS is a loophole excuse to open up your guns. There's no brain cells involved in pulling a trigger if that's the case.

smugglers moving through omicron 100 are given that order. I do not take the same approach to people in that system that I do while I'm in omicron 100, as Minor is not restricted/classified territory. Anyone trying to go through minor is directed towards the delta jump hole. If they try to enter alaska, I wont stop them... but they'd better be prepared to deal with liberty when they get through. If they try to enter omicron 100, they die.

Omicron 100 is not a standard system, I've said this over and over and over again and you refuse to listen. I'm not going to argue the point further - if you dont like how I do things that's fine, but you're not going to stop me from doing it.

Sub commander ... self imposed rank? Yup ... gives you rights to a cruiser. Oh well ... such is role play on Disco ... post something in the forums and you can have your dream in-game. People get away with so much by typing a few words in the forums. Hey ... if I type up a role play bio for one of my characters ... I bet I can get away with making a few server rules not apply to me ... that would be cool. NOT!

Yes, it's a self imposed rank, and along with it I have self imposed restrictions. I dont powerplay.

You want to complain about people using capships or 'giving themselves' ranks? Direct it at all the players running around in battleships that dont have any idea how to RP and call themselves fleet admirals.

I have several threads running in the story/bio sections explaining how my character came to be where she's at, and hinting at where she's going. That implies time and effort, and an idea of how RP works - I RP'd on this server for a good month as a junker before ever getting a capship on any character - I've earned my position as much as any of the idiots running around in factions or battleships.

Nice to have the best of both worlds.

Oh you have no idea, I mean I can go around ordering war against the rest of sirius with no implications whatsoever! Everyone has to follow every little thing I say, like I'm some kind of god... oh wait, I am!

/sarcasm.

I command in the absence of higher ranked individuals, and I bow down to their commands when they're around. I'm sorry that players arent on the server 24/7 to create a real chain of command, so we have to work around it.

I'm not unreasonable in that regard either. If I see low ranked Bs| or independent order vessels doing nothing but sitting above toledo all day long, I'll give them simple assignments that make things fun and productive for -everyone-, things like "hey, go check out omicron delta for threats." Or "make a patrol around the system to check for hostiles."

Ooooooh ... I'm nervous now. Tell ya what ... you fire on me (Order vs Order) ... the admins will find a report for an OORP attack.

You dont get to stick around in the military when you blatantly defy orders from a superior. It isnt an OoRP attack to knock some sense into your head if you choose to do so, unless the orders are unreasonable in some regard.

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