Cruiser Balance

[ScornStar]

one bomber < one good cruiser

IMO.

The low powerplant bombers can't hit hull with SN if they don't use guns on shield, and down the shieldregen with guns take time.

I personally find it extremely difficult to solo an properly flown Cruiser (Varyag, Dreygon...) on my own even in the RH bomber.

So I don't think that part needs more changing.

The other comparisons should be changed to look like this:

One gunboat < One cruiser
2 gunboats ~= one cruiser
(depending which cruiser, the "turret mode" ones : OUtcast, COrsair, RH, Red HEs shoud be > 2 GBs)

One battlecruiser =~ One cruiser
(depends a lot which one really, Liberty cruiser > BC, Kusari Dessie > BC, Dragon Cruiser > BC, others < BC)
one battlecruiser < 2 Cruisers (any)

One battleship > One cruiser
(should stay but the cruise can stay in range and don't die, all this while firing)
One battleship < Two cruisers ( if they keep range)

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I'm the "bombardment" fan as well...
so maybe better efficiency on Light Mortar/Razor => problem is that BCs can mount them as well...
Now normal cruiser can fire 2 Light Mortars at the same time (before loosing energy)... BC 5.

If you change it to 4 on Cruisers.. you get 10 on BCs!!!!
Also normal cruiser can not sustain firing 1 all the time. (have to wait for recharge)
BCs can sustain 1 and second if you wait a tiny bit ... now imagine them being able to fire 4 constantly!!!

Lets keep in mind Dreygon and Varyag are long time criuser pilots. Not average. We should aim for the average player not the long time vets of a class.

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[SevereTrinity]

Cruisers have already been balanced, and it works fine, but I'll let Mjolnir reveal the details or not at all.

[Tenacity]

one bomber < one good cruiser

IMO.

The low powerplant bombers can't hit hull with SN if they don't use guns on shield, and down the shieldregen with guns take time.

I personally find it extremely difficult to solo an properly flown Cruiser (Varyag, Dreygon...) on my own even in the RH bomber.

So I don't think that part needs more changing.

Use shieldbusters then. It only takes a few shots before a supernova to down the target's shields. Outcasts have an advantage here with inferno cannons, which can be fired in conjunction with a supernova. A Corsair bomber can load up 4 colada del cids to deal with shields as long as he has support when going up against fighters.

I've personally seen a bomber pilot - and he wasnt even a great bomber pilot - solo a bounty hunter battlecruiser. Bombers are, IMO, the single most 'overpowered' ship class in this mod right now.

The other comparisons should be changed to look like this:

One gunboat < One cruiser
2 gunboats ~= one cruiser
(depending which cruiser, the "turret mode" ones : OUtcast, COrsair, RH, Red HEs shoud be > 2 GBs)

I've solo'd several cruisers in my kusari gunboat, including the OC destroyer, bretonian destroyer, and rheinland cruiser. Any decent gunboat pilot can stay at 1k range and out-strafe a cruiser's fire with ease, past that all you need are two cerberus turrets or a forward gun, and the cruiser doesnt stand a chance. It will be a long fight, but it can be done.

I've also solo'd plenty of huntress cruisers, hell I almost took one out with my firefly transport once... but huntresses are pretty weak and have a 180 degree blind spot.

One battlecruiser =~ One cruiser
(depends a lot which one really, Liberty cruiser > BC, Kusari Dessie > BC, Dragon Cruiser > BC, others < BC)
one battlecruiser < 2 Cruisers (any)

Technically battlecruisers should always be able to beat cruisers, due to much heavier firepower and generally heavier armor, but equal shielding. This is pretty true right now, I've never seen a cruiser take out a battlecruiser solo. I'm sure it's been done, but it is likely a rare occurance.

One battleship > One cruiser
(should stay but the cruise can stay in range and don't die, all this while firing)
One battleship < Two cruisers ( if they keep range)

This depends on the cruisers. Two liberty or kusari cruisers could fairly easily take out the larger battleships, but most cruisers wouldnt be able to.

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I'm the "bombardment" fan as well...
so maybe better efficiency on Light Mortar/Razor => problem is that BCs can mount them as well...
Now normal cruiser can fire 2 Light Mortars at the same time (before loosing energy)... BC 5.

If you change it to 4 on Cruisers.. you get 10 on BCs!!!!
Also normal cruiser can not sustain firing 1 all the time. (have to wait for recharge)
BCs can sustain 1 and second if you wait a tiny bit ... now imagine them being able to fire 4 constantly!!!

I do wish the 'special' capship weapons were more effective. I find it ridiculous that a fighter-grade mini razor does twice the damage for a tenth of the cost that a gunboat razor does, or that a bomber's supernova does twice as much damage as a cruiser light mortar, but costs less than half as much energy to fire.

A zoner destroyer can fire two light mortars simultaneously, but is put down to about 5% energy remaining after firing. I'm pretty sure most cruisers use the same powerplant - the zoner dessie only has 9 guns, and loses energy firing all order mk2 turrets (cruiser grade turrets), so I think something may need to be done with cruiser power supply.

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[SevereTrinity]

Again, I say, wait until the balancing is done, cruisers are fixed...

[chopper]

Use shieldbusters then. It only takes a few shots before a supernova to down the target's shields. Outcasts have an advantage here with inferno cannons, which can be fired in conjunction with a supernova. A Corsair bomber can load up 4 colada del cids to deal with shields as long as he has support when going up against fighters.

Inferno.. Yes, it helps in soloing cruisers. It's almost impossible to kill a cruiser 1vs1 without inferno.
Even with del cids you need to spend some time shooting at it's shield (around 2 seconds, 8 shots) and during that time you get hit. Hard.
Since it's a close range gun and you can't dodge while shooting.
Now, if you consider that only Falcata should be able to mount Inferno..
Well, it's not that easy at all. Falcata is not good enough to solo a good cruiser.

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It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del

[Tenacity]

Inferno.. Yes, it helps in soloing cruisers. It's almost impossible to kill a cruiser 1vs1 without inferno.

no, it isnt.

As I said, I sat and watched a blood dragon bomber, using a supernova, train CD, and 4 standard blood dragon class 9's (katanas? i forget the name - no shieldbusters though) solo kill a bounty hunter battlecruiser that was fully kitted out. Battlecruisers have cruiser shielding, and higher hull strength than standard cruisers.

The only cruiser that would be sufficiently difficult or impossible to take out for a standard bomber pilot would be the kusari destroyer, since that thing is gunboat sized and almost manuvers like one.

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[Saigo.Watanabe]

Since it's a close range gun and you can't dodge while shooting.

I can? use the z-manoeuvre ( however u spell it) and straff while shooting, works for me... but i find it still hard to take down shields even with a sn and deb's, cause i find when i try to attack a cruiser, the guns hurt you without even hitting you, which i *think* is bugged.

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"Time is too precious to be idle." - Saigo Watanabe
"Death is something that is inevitable, Something you cannot run away from." - Katharina Hildegard
Now going under the gaming name: Seraxia
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[chopper]

The only cruiser that would be sufficiently difficult or impossible to take out for a standard bomber pilot would be the kusari destroyer

Ok. So, sit in a bomber and beat one BC or Cruiser for yourself.
You think it's easy? You are telling me a story about someone else doing it.
So why don't you do it? Have you even tried to solo a GB in a bomber?
A good GB pilot will always win against any bomber 1vs1.
A good Cruiser pilot will always win against any bomber 1vs1.

That simple.

Now of course, you can give me an example of one good bomber pilot killing one bad cruiser pilots.
What's new there?
I'v seen people killing GB's 1vs1 in VHF, that doesn't mean VHF class is overpowered.

Also, BC's don't have a thruster (unless it was BHG) and are slower. Good cruiser pilot can actually dodge some SN shots. BC can't.
Also, Dragon bomber is not a good example either. Try beating a Cruiser in Praetorian, Thor, Falcata, Challenger..

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It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del

[Tenacity]

So why don't you do it? Have you even tried to solo a GB in a bomber?

Yes, I have. I took out an Orca BH Gunboat with my falcata a while back when I flew one, other than that I dont fly bombers anymore, though I might use a sehkmet order bomber in 4.85 when it's released, that one looks kinda cool.

I also took out a liberty cruiser with the same falcata.

Tip: Get in close, use engine kill and thruster spam to fly tight circles around the cruiser, and make sure your supernovas dont miss. The only way a cruiser can attack you is with turret view, and if you fly in circles above/to the side/below them (in one loop) turret view cant keep up with you.

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[chopper]

And exactly how do you drop his shield?
You have a Supernova. You shoot supernova at his shield once it recharges.
While you are waiting for SN recharge, his shield is up again.
So you have to use guns, either for hull or for shield. And while you'r shooting, you are an easy target, if he's not a complete noob.
Technically speaking, good bomber pilot has no chance against good cruiser pilot. Period.

And that flying around works only against pretty bad pilots which don't know how to move forward, but stand still.
A Cruiser that stays foot is either AFK or a very bad cruiser captain.

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It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del