I made a Kusari battleship character that served more as a defense ship than an assault ship. I had the proper BS ID and KNF ID. I patrolled Kusaran systems, helped traders out, and was rather friendly with everyone. Yet the KNF group got a bee up their butts about me having this ship and being in their zone of control. It angered me to see this faction become severely annoyed about this minor little thing. I wasn't hurting anyone, I was RPing, I was civil, and I did a good job.
This event won't be brought up in detail(It was peacefully resolved with no hurt feelings/resentments), but I still didn't understand why I couldn't have it. If someone is using their ship properly, then there should be no qualm against them. Instead of saying, "LUL! No BS for you becuzz you iz not in faction!" you should just make sanctions against them all the more harsh. Battleships are not toys. If treated as such, take the punishments to the extreme.
Shago
"THE HULL HAS BEEN BREACHED AND THESCIENCEIS LEAKING OUT!"
' Wrote:If... Indie cap ship captains are to be required to make a post and create RP for their ships, then capships in the factions will be required to do the same.
Whatever regulations/requirements you wish to put in place, MUST be made the same for factions and indies alike.
I've always believed, and will continue to believe that to solve the capship issues, we need to use our capships more often. Its safe to say most if not all of the people posting here with concerns are responsible and decent RPers. If we were on our capships setting an example more often, then the others with luck will change their ways and try to fit in. The way capships are handled by factions now in most cases, is they are only logged on to WTFPWN things, never to do ordinary day to day RP.
/signed. Any restrictions that are brought into place must be universal to all.
' Wrote:I had this argument a long time ago.
I made a Kusari battleship character that served more as a defense ship than an assault ship. I had the proper BS ID and KNF ID. I patrolled Kusaran systems, helped traders out, and was rather friendly with everyone. Yet the KNF group got a bee up their butts about me having this ship and being in their zone of control. It angered me to see this faction become severely annoyed about this minor little thing. I wasn't hurting anyone, I was RPing, I was civil, and I did a good job.
This event won't be brought up in detail(It was peacefully resolved with no hurt feelings/resentments), but I still didn't understand why I couldn't have it. If someone is using their ship properly, then there should be no qualm against them. Instead of saying, "LUL! No BS for you becuzz you iz not in faction!" you should just make sanctions against them all the more harsh. Battleships are not toys. If treated as such, take the punishments to the extreme.
Shago
Well, you can make it now.:lol:
(I cannot say much about this, since I am in the [KNF].)
In general, I stand on the side of those quoted below, but my ideas differ.
In the original post, you mentioned a Cap sitting outside manhattan, blasting any lawfuls it saw. Did you do something about it? Did you stand up for them? No. At least from what you wrote it is evident that you took no action. And why not, because the rules said so? That's rediculous. "Hey man, keep shooting at those cops, and the debris that will be the remainder of your hull will find itself atomizing in that planets atmosphere." He's either going to shoot you, or go way, but at least you did something. And if he does shoot another police, well, you told him you were going to take him down. So do it.
Even if the person is a member of a faction that's allied with yours, if they're using their cap ship in a ridiculous or ebarrasing manner, beat them down and drag them off somewhere else. What, pirates can't police their own?
Further more, I think the above mentioned situation is much better roleplay than comming to the forum and asking for heavier restrictions on capital vessels. You're either taking up for the little guy, or cleaning up the mess of an errant faction member. That not only makes you friends, and opens opportunities for diplomatic negotiations, it shows the offender the err of their ways much more efficiently than an Admin Sanction and Detainment, which they are just going to complain about on the forums anyway.
I've not played much on this server yet, because I'm still getting set up, but one thing I've learned, (and I hope you don't just take my word for it, but actually try it and see if it works for you as well,) the best way to deal with a TWINK is to stand up, dust yourself off, and beat some sense into him. If you can't do it, put a bounty on him. Do you have Allies? Call for aid. Use your knowledge of the universe and have him chase you into a guard system where he will be instantly liquidated. There's always more than one way to skin a cat.
That's my opinion of CapWhores.
Now my opinion of Indie Caps.
Making it more difficult than it already is for a player to get into a cap ship is rediculous. First off, their selections are already severely limited as it is, and loadouts are even more wonky, simply because they don't belong to a faction, why make it harder on them. Most independents out there aren't Indie so that they can do whatever they want, they're indie because they haven't gotten to know the players of other factions, and don't want to make a rash decision. Give them time, let them get used to the game. They'll come around.
Having to post anything in the forums about their ship, or how they got it, may be outside of the scope of roleplay that the player is looking for. So far as I have read, aside from a few "Reports" about in game news that have been written by some of the most (apparently) respected members of the community, and sactioned by the admins and developers by in game modifications, most of the roleplay that goes on in the forum is very dry, and well, boring to read. Why would anyone want to come here and spend their time posting something that's going to get criticized when they could be in game roleplaying and having fun doing so? Are you going to tell me that somebody has to post in the forum in order to be a good roleplayer? That's rediculous. I know a slew of people who have never played this game who could come in and roleplay better than most people in the first day, and after getting to know the setting perhaps better than all of them. Not to say that none of them are good roleplayers, but I have personally been witness to many examples of this exact attitude:
Quote:*** You may have been playing Freelancer since the first day the game hit the shelves; you may have won every Freelancer Tournament that has ever been held; you may have played 10,000 hours in single-player, and 2.5 gazillion hours on every other Freelancer server that has ever been online; you may be able to blow up every single ship that you come across due to your superior tactical skills; BUT your first day on the Discovery server and forum is your FIRST day. No one here cares what you did or didn't do elsewhere, this community only cares about the common sense, maturity, and skills that you display HERE. If you want respect, then you are going to have to earn it just like everyone else here did: by playing the game on THIS server and using THIS forum. Whatever you did before you got here isn't worth 2 credits to anyone here. You will have the reputation here that you EARN here, just like the rest of us.
Again, not to say that I disagree with what this quote says, indeed, actions that occured in other servers do not exist and/or never happened in this server, and therefore are irrelevant. Maturity, common sense, et cetera, et cetera. But many take it much much farther than that. Look at the way this was written. It's harsh, abrasive, in your face, and unwelcomming. And this is on a sticky thread? This is one of the first things you want all of your new players to read, whether they're just new to the mod, or new to the entire game, no matter what their roleplaying background might be? I find that more often than not, people are trying to correct me than roleplay with me, solely because I have a new face, then see many of those same people making the same or similar mistakes.
The problem is, when people first start, they want to be original, they want to stand out. Joining a faction is the exact opposite, It's conforming and trying to match a specific group in the game. 90% of the indipendant ships in the game, I promise you, the player has never been a member of a faction. If they want to fly a cap ship, let them. If they use it incorrectly, well, reffer to the first half of the post. If they use it in a way that's OORP, let them know, then tell an admin. (Cause most likely they will ignore you because they are sick of getting corrected all the time. I heard someone say "Rules Lawyer" earlier?) That being said, not everyone, including myself, wants to roleplay on these forums, and it's exactly because of the elitist attidude covered in the previous post. Nobody wants to be involved in a community where "I've been here longer so I'm more important than you." Give them time to get used to the game, when they do get around to picking a faction, and get settled in, they may come to the forums they may not. They may just come here to complain about cap whores or nerfed bombers, or that their faction has no Item X but his faction does. Well, at least they will be here.
It takes time to settle into a new community where most of the other members have been established for a year or more. During this time, creative exploration and experimentation should be encouraged, so the players can get settled in and make the choice of where they want to go. They shouldn't be constrained and ostricized because of a few Twinks who spend most of their time playing FPS's and have no real concept of what roleplay IS, or could be for them. They will be more comfortable and stick around much longer if you give them space and time to settle in. That doesn't mean you have to take crap from them, though, nor that they should be allowed to do as they please. Just be patient.
' Wrote:Or just..move away from the ship?
If an OC Dessie appeared and attacked my VHF or bomber. I'd either try get a gang together to take down that ship or just ignore it.
It can't shoot any traders and although it may be OORP to just leave such a large vessel alone but frankly, if they act like an ass in such an OORP fashion then it's a fair tactic.
' Wrote:The best way to make them see sense is to kill them. Many. Times. Over.
I was killed about five times before I stopped taking my IMG BC to NY waaaaay back when. Then I saw sense.
If killing them fifty times over fails, we should try a three strikes, you're out strategy.
More than three sanctions/warnings/bannings, and you get your cap deleted with no refund.
For the record, I perfer to fly light fighters, have only started playing on this server a week ago, and am an indipendent. Most of the players with whom I have interacted are also indipendents, who are not in cap ships, and have not been playing for very long. I do not claim to speak for them, but I can assure you, that there is a general consensus among them about what I have spoken. People will continue to leave freelancer over time, but they're not selling the game any more. Just a thought.
Edit: In case Hoodlum shows up. Whilst I do not agree with some of the things you said that post is gold. It demonstrates what I believe to be a fair and insightful judgement of the independents and the community in general.
No faction can tell you, that you cannot have that ship.
Theoretically, I could go buy a Liberty Drednaught right now, of course, you do need apropriate RP, So make sure you tell them to bite you if they tell you "OMGZZZZZ NO CAPZZZ BECUZ U AINZ IN ZE FACCCCCZION"
Datafreak, your post deserves a star of approval... Its sad i lost mine long ago.
' Wrote:If... Indie cap ship captains are to be required to make a post and create RP for their ships, then capships in the factions will be required to do the same.
Whatever regulations/requirements you wish to put in place, MUST be made the same for factions and indies alike.
I've always believed, and will continue to believe that to solve the capship issues, we need to use our capships more often. Its safe to say most if not all of the people posting here with concerns are responsible and decent RPers. If we were on our capships setting an example more often, then the others with luck will change their ways and try to fit in. The way capships are handled by factions now in most cases, is they are only logged on to WTFPWN things, never to do ordinary day to day RP.
Why not? Sure, no objections here. Same treatment for everyone.
For heaven's sake, the Colonial Remnant did dozens of hours of RP for our three BS's and 6 Battlecruisers.
Thousands of various commodities were hauled out to our shipyard, totaling in around 50k optronics, hull panels, scrap metal, engine components, and H-Fuel, and it was also forum RPed.
Personally, I'll not have any objections to everyone having to do it.
<span style="font-familyalatino Linotype">
<span style="color:#000000">All morons hate it when you call them a moron.
Now, if someone would re-read the original first posts, they would find that objections against indies are only those who abuse their ships. Those who rp in-game, they are fine, noone is poking them.
And ofcourse if we see our unlawful ships killing stuff infront of hattan, sure ill tell him to bugger off.
And ofcourse faction caps would need a forum rp as well, i agree to that, it's only fair.
I'd also like to point out to the people saying "If Independent capital ships are restricted then factionalized capital ships should be also" that most, if not all factions already restrict capital ship usage. The LR- for example only has about 3 or 4 Gunboats, 2 or 3 Dessies and no battleships. I can only recall ever seeing a couple of [LN] Gunboats or Cruisers as well. I suspect this might also be the cause of a large amount of independent capital ships. Because of the heavy restrictions factions have on their capital ships, many players just use the easier alternative of going independent to get their desired ship straight away. A lot of players in the [LN] that I know also have an LNS independent Gunboat or Cruiser or some other capital ship on the side.
' Wrote:Now, if someone would re-read the original first posts, they would find that objections against indies are only those who abuse their ships. Those who rp in-game, they are fine, noone is poking them.
But this still affects them, even if they don't abuse their ship. Sure, that's cool that you and your friends got together and roleplayed out building a cap ship. I bet everyone had a good time doing it too. But not everyone would have fun doing that, and the indies, well... there's no way you're going to convince them of that.
The key to roleplay is it has to be fun. If noone is having fun they're not going to do it. Keep in mind, for one person to raise enough cash to equip and fit a battle ship, it's going to take weeks, maybe even months. You can't tell someone, "Oh hey, by the way, you have to bring me 40k of this item, 20k of this item... etc." That's why people buy things, so they don't have to make it themselves. If an admin wants to facilitate building a ship, awesome. I'm all about it.
Just keep in mind who you are affecting when you ask for legislation like this. Yes sure, it may make the game enjoyable for you, but what about the 1000 or so other players on the server, Hell, more than half of them will never see this thread.
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