Capships + Traders

[tansytansey]

I would rather have power smugglers than trigger happy battlecruisers blasting my Firefly up without a lick of roleplay to be had. Tell me, have you ever been attacked by a Destroyer or another large capital vessel in your trader? Then you know it is not fun. The rule may have been created to encourage fairplay, but it also has a standing in-RP.
Capital ships are vessels of war, not designed for interdiction of smugglers. You want to stop smugglers, you fly something smaller. Simple as that.

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|Ashes and Draya's Epic Adventure|Ashes "Nighthawk" Yotaka|Nightfall|Eva Jones|
[5:50:49 PM] JakeSG (William Darkmoor) says: I like you, Ashes. You're more cynical than God.

[jimmy Patterson]

ive not once seen any caps engage a trader unless they were smugglers docking on manhattan and they were the only one there or they had comitted a hostile act or tresspassed there vessels aof war yes but in wars its the battleships cruisersand carriers that primarrly run the blocades of hostile harbors/borders(with the destroyers screening the fleet to protect the blocade enforcers) the lolwuts have gotten worse ever sense factions arent allowed to kill there properly ided and iff " stolen ships" but thats not the post of this topic the powersumgglers lead to the "battlecruisers lolwutting destroying everything insight" personally id of prefered if the rules were (at least for being allowed to engage caps )like they were mabye make the caps able to engage traders if nothing else is avalible the server has to many rules that in all honestity were made because as (unnammed admin)said once "people dont take the time to solve alotta inrp issues inrp"

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kudos tommeh for sig

[tansytansey]

"people dont take the time to solve alotta inrp issues inrp"

Don't you see the hipocracy in all this? You're not proposing we solve the power trader 'problem' with RP. You're suggesting we solve it with PvP.
"Because they're lolwutters" is not an excuse. I'm sick of everyone accusing people who don't adhere to your kind of roleplay as 'lolwutters'. If you don't take the time to roleplay with them, then you're the lolwutter, not them.
This whole thing is just an excuse for bored capital ship pilots to shoot at weak transports. Does it make you feel accomplished that you just destroyed a helpless transport? I suppose you're the kind of person to engage a lone Pirate Light Fighter in a cruiser, too. As much as Discovery is a roleplaying server, it is also a game. Think about the person on the other side of the screen for one second, and think how they feel when someone rolls up in a Cruiser or Battleship and blasts the hell out of them.
You can say "oh but they should expect it, being smugglers"
but just because they are smugglers, it doesn't mean they are bad people. And you have no right to comment until you've had it happen to you. The percentage of people using the rules to remain untouched pales in comparison to the amount of capital ship pilots abusing their ships.

http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...958&hl=soul

In this situation the Kusari Destroyer was attacking a Firefly transport in Leeds that was breaking the Embargo. If that's not evidence enough that Capital ships should not be attacking transports under any circumstances, then what is?

One last time, I'll even bold it for you to make it easier to read.
If you want to stop smugglers, fly a god damn gunboat or bomber. End of Story.
Really... it's not that hard. You chose to fly a cruiser or battleship, you chose not to be able to interdict traders.

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Image turned into a URL because it made your sig too tall. -Zuke
|Ashes and Draya's Epic Adventure|Ashes "Nighthawk" Yotaka|Nightfall|Eva Jones|
[5:50:49 PM] JakeSG (William Darkmoor) says: I like you, Ashes. You're more cynical than God.

[Alexander Draconis]

This is stupid. I'm not even going to add my 2 cents because this is just that ridiculous. No one can get a word in edgewise because everyone has some bias sob story about how they got killed once...

For the love of my poor eyes and ears, admin call?

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Dryson: LN Pilot--Leygeist of The Order--Alistair Blood: Dragon of Fury

Orson's Story--Joseph's Story

[jimmy Patterson]

Don't you see the hipocracy in all this? You're not proposing we solve the power trader 'problem' with RP. You're suggesting we solve it with PvP.
"Because they're lolwutters" is not an excuse. I'm sick of everyone accusing people who don't adhere to your kind of roleplay as 'lolwutters'. If you don't take the time to roleplay with them, then you're the lolwutter, not them.
This whole thing is just an excuse for bored capital ship pilots to shoot at weak transports. Does it make you feel accomplished that you just destroyed a helpless transport? I suppose you're the kind of person to engage a lone Pirate Light Fighter in a cruiser, too. As much as Discovery is a roleplaying server, it is also a game. Think about the person on the other side of the screen for one second, and think how they feel when someone rolls up in a Cruiser or Battleship and blasts the hell out of them.
You can say "oh but they should expect it, being smugglers"
but just because they are smugglers, it doesn't mean they are bad people. And you have no right to comment until you've had it happen to you. The percentage of people using the rules to remain untouched pales in comparison to the amount of capital ship pilots abusing their ships.

http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...958&hl=soul

In this situation the Kusari Destroyer was attacking a Firefly transport in Leeds that was breaking the Embargo. If that's not evidence enough that Capital ships should not be attacking transports under any circumstances, then what is?

One last time, I'll even bold it for you to make it easier to read.
If you want to stop smugglers, fly a god damn gunboat or bomber. End of Story.
Really... it's not that hard. You chose to fly a cruiser or battleship, you chose not to be able to interdict traders.

ok the first part of your "argument" is nulled right off the batt you know why because lolwutters are the speedocking container transporta with smuggler IDs police(or other blantently lawful iff) that take a BHGBC(or other big cap0to wtfrape when you kil lthem after curssing when they get done with there sanctionswith no engagement notice at all or they just plane F1 right off the batt in said transport when stopped

aka the kind of people that dont care if there Sanctioned
no a LN iffed LNguard Ided LABC trying to do its job which is safeguard the nation its part of from ALL THREATS foregin and domestic
its an rp server they dont rp thats the definition of an "lulwut" player as for the rest of it there was never a problem with caps interdicting smuggler sat al lthey should of took thew time to rp not getting caught
(calling diversions bribes wings of pirates to tie up the interdictors)not speeddock after exiting a tradelane in broadsight and with that i end this as it goes nowhere

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kudos tommeh for sig

[tansytansey]

ok the first part of your "argument" is nulled right off the batt you know why because lolwutters are the speedocking container transporta with smuggler IDs police(or other blantently lawful iff) that take a BHGBC(or other big cap0to wtfrape when you kil lthem after curssing when they get done with there sanctionswith no engagement notice at all or they just plane F1 right off the batt in said transport when stopped

And why should we care so much about them? They're obviously not going to contribute to this community either way. They won't last long once they buy their ships and start breaking the rules. But the proposed would harm legitimate players just as much, if not more than those that disregard the rules. Allowing large capital ships to shoot smugglers is not the solution, it only causes more problems. Don't you see that?

aka the kind of people that dont care if there Sanctioned
no a LN iffed LNguard Ided LABC trying to do its job which is safeguard the nation its part of from ALL THREATS foregin and domestic

Don't you see? It's not the job of Cruisers and Battleships to stop smugglers. They are the ones who are supposed to be fighting against Rhienland and other capital ships. Leave the smugglers to the LPI and Navy Bombers.

Pirates are not allowed to pirate in Cruisers and Battleships for this very same reason. Why is it so hard to stop smugglers in a Bomber or Gunboat? Why do you need to fly a Battlecruiser just to stop them?

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Image turned into a URL because it made your sig too tall. -Zuke
|Ashes and Draya's Epic Adventure|Ashes "Nighthawk" Yotaka|Nightfall|Eva Jones|
[5:50:49 PM] JakeSG (William Darkmoor) says: I like you, Ashes. You're more cynical than God.

[Slainte]

[quote name='mb52' date='Jun 11 2009, 04:19 AM' post='618587']
Ok, so first of all lets say a hypothetical situation..

A Liberty Battlecruiser encounters a Rheinland trader in liberty.

Rules first of all say capships cannot engage him because he's a trader.

But.. the ID says that we can turn around traders and make them drop the cargo, and destroy if they do not cooperate.

What comes into play first? ID or Rules?

Can the capship do anything to this ship?
[/quote]




[/quote]Pirates are not allowed to pirate in Cruisers and Battleships for this very same reason. Why is it so hard to stop smugglers in a Bomber or Gunboat? Why do you need to fly a Battlecruiser just to stop them?[/quote]

No, you dont need a cap to stop them but if you are caught by one when jumping into a system or exiting a tradelane, expect the worst.


Edit...need to learn how to use these boards proparly:)

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[tansytansey]

Pirates are not allowed to pirate in Cruisers and Battleships for this very same reason. Why is it so hard to stop smugglers in a Bomber or Gunboat? Why do you need to fly a Battlecruiser just to stop them?

No, you dont need a cap to stop them but if you are caught by one when jumping into a system or exiting a tradelane, expect the worst.
Edit...need to learn how to use these boards proparly:)

No, according to the rules cruisers and battleships are still not allowed to attack traders.

Also, your quotes messed up because you opened a quote with [ /quote ] instead of [ quote ]. Remove the / and it will fix all your broken quotes.

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http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv46/Ni...gcloudscopy.png
Image turned into a URL because it made your sig too tall. -Zuke
|Ashes and Draya's Epic Adventure|Ashes "Nighthawk" Yotaka|Nightfall|Eva Jones|
[5:50:49 PM] JakeSG (William Darkmoor) says: I like you, Ashes. You're more cynical than God.

[RingoW]

Don't you see the hipocracy in all this? You're not proposing we solve the power trader 'problem' with RP. You're suggesting we solve it with PvP.
"Because they're lolwutters" is not an excuse. I'm sick of everyone accusing people who don't adhere to your kind of roleplay as 'lolwutters'. If you don't take the time to roleplay with them, then you're the lolwutter, not them.
This whole thing is just an excuse for bored capital ship pilots to shoot at weak transports. Does it make you feel accomplished that you just destroyed a helpless transport? I suppose you're the kind of person to engage a lone Pirate Light Fighter in a cruiser, too. As much as Discovery is a roleplaying server, it is also a game. Think about the person on the other side of the screen for one second, and think how they feel when someone rolls up in a Cruiser or Battleship and blasts the hell out of them.
You can say "oh but they should expect it, being smugglers"
but just because they are smugglers, it doesn't mean they are bad people. And you have no right to comment until you've had it happen to you. The percentage of people using the rules to remain untouched pales in comparison to the amount of capital ship pilots abusing their ships.

http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...958&hl=soul

In this situation the Kusari Destroyer was attacking a Firefly transport in Leeds that was breaking the Embargo. If that's not evidence enough that Capital ships should not be attacking transports under any circumstances, then what is?

One last time, I'll even bold it for you to make it easier to read.
If you want to stop smugglers, fly a god damn gunboat or bomber. End of Story.
Really... it's not that hard. You chose to fly a cruiser or battleship, you chose not to be able to interdict traders.

Next time if you are caught breaking the embargo, would you wait for the capship owner to switch to a bomber or gunboat to treat you accordingly to a broken rule?
Speaking about fairplay. It sounds very fair to break the embargo in front of a destroyer/cruiser, which does operate at the frontline and metagaming by abusing a rule for your own benefit.
Its absolutely unfair to show a provoking behavior by breaking a blockade and then whine, whe you have to face the consequences of your provocation.
If i fly a trading vessel and do smuggle or break any embargos i do expect to get blown the hell out of me, if caught and not complying to orders. Indifferent what ship my opponent has and i never would report him, because he did right and because of fairness.

AoM

[Jinx]

actually - both examples ... pirating traders - or stopping smugglers can cause absurd situations.

it happened in the past that tradeships passed close ( like really within inches ) of pirate warships - mocking the pirate and even yelling the location of the warship to the lawfuls publicly.

in that case - the pirate warship might not even have moved to the trader at all - - it was the trader that approached the pirate - exploiting his protection.

in such a situation - the pirate is usually quite vexed by the behaviour of the trader - and there is just no single reason ( in RP ) not to blow him apart. - its not like the bad warship captain chased a helpless little trader around and applied the unfairness of his big bad ship to the situation.



turn it around - and you can get the same with lawfuls. - a smuggler - full to the rim with cardamine approaches planet manhattan. - it happens that there is currently only one Liberty Navy BC in orbit. NO other ship is available to stop that smuggler, easy as that.

then you sometimes get really smart smugglers that make a mockery out of the situation - being sure they are protected by the rules - and quickdock - just to undock with passengers or something.



both situations describe not a theory, but actually happened quite often. - of course a warship "should" engage the trader... just as a battleship SHOULD kill a light fighter if the light fighter is approaching the battleship with a hostile ( but utterly silly ) attitude.

so - yes, a battlecruiser "might" not activly hunt for smugglers ( although - that is subjective what a battlecruiser should and should not do.... just cause someone feels that its too much means that its wrong to do so - other people might think that its just appropriate - hard to say who s right and who s wrong )



i think what warship players complain about is not that they are not allowed to **chase** a smuggler all around the place. - the reason they feel helpless is cause they cannot do something even if the smuggler is dumb enough to present himself on a silver platter. - and yes, some smugglers ARE so smart to prance around a lawful battleship talking tosh like "oi, captain, i got 5000 tons of cardamine and now i ll take the mooring fixture and ruin your planet some more!"

and the warship captain thinks to himself *right, calm down, you must not get upset and shoot at him, - temper, temper - do not shoot at him!" .... when everyone would agree... he "should" open fire.



problematic is that what is needed is commen sense and responsibility. - without that ... there s no solution for the problem.

allowing a warship captain to engage a trader if the situation makes sense in RP is nice, too bad - everyone has a different idea of whats appropriate ( also see: engagement notice in RP, which every player interprets differently ) - disallowing engaging leads to frustration and .... these complaints.



result of it all is - there are situations when a trader should be pulverized by a battleship, there are situation when it should not happen. - since every player is different, some players are even activly seeking for loopholes, others just randomly step into a loophole, others know loopholes and try to avoid them - its almost impossible to make a simple rule for this situation - and simple is what we need.

so the "don t engage a trader" is the rule at the expense of the smallest bit of RP plausibility. - its not perfect, but to get a perfect rule, we d need either a lawyer to make the rules - and lawyers to play the game... or - and there is even less chance to get ... 100% responsible players with a highly developed social competence, the ability to compromise ane experience with common sense. - if we had that - the world would be a better place - not only discovery freelancer.

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