Rescaling the Kusari Destroyer

[kalimero2]

Why?

Because vanila size of kusie desie is hand in hand with vanila slots for turrets.... enough said

If you want resize that ship, it need new slots for guns wich mean stronger powerplant and more armor. Oh wait ohnoez... KNF with even stronger ship eeeek need moar neeeeeerfs

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[tansytansey]

I don't see any reason to respond to "it's so wrong" and "look at the size" posts.

Currently the ship is balanced and it doesn't limit other things.

Arguments for resizing are:
1. strange size vs some ships

If you however compare Kusari GB vs Kusari Dessie and Bret Dessie vs Bret GB the difference is not that big.

Arguments against resizing:
1.it's vanilla and changing it would lower diversity
2. it would need rebalancing,
(3. it needs to be tested)

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Yes I know HOW to do that, I do no know what happens when the hitbox really gets tested, past experiences make me cautious.

And yet when you compare the Kusari ships with Bretonian Ships...

The fact it's Vanilla is not an argument against modifying it. This is a mod, no? We're supposed to change things. Hence the Sabre's reduced strafing. It was considered an imbalance, and thus removed. There really is no difference in scaling a model and altering ini files. The ships still look Vanilla, only they fly different.

Lowering diversity, sure. But I'd question the role of the Kusari Dessie, what is the proposed role of it's 4.86 balance?

Past experiences are also not an argument. Just because something might go wrong, we should not try to make things better? And if it does fail, well then you can always fall back on the previous design. But at least you would have tried.

To change takes more than to remain; therefore we lay back in the comfort of our chains.

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http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv46/Ni...gcloudscopy.png
Image turned into a URL because it made your sig too tall. -Zuke
|Ashes and Draya's Epic Adventure|Ashes "Nighthawk" Yotaka|Nightfall|Eva Jones|
[5:50:49 PM] JakeSG (William Darkmoor) says: I like you, Ashes. You're more cynical than God.

[Kazinsal]

Scale it up 2x. It makes more sense both in-RP and OORP, as long as you say that, in-RP, "It's always been that way" or "We had to make it bigger to fit the awesomeness in". Screw Vanilla. This is a freakin' mod.

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Retired, permanently.

[tansytansey]

Because vanila size of kusie desie is hand in hand with vanila slots for turrets.... enough said

If you want resize that ship, it need new slots for guns wich mean stronger powerplant and more armor. Oh wait ohnoez... KNF with even stronger ship eeeek need moar neeeeeerfs

Kusari Dessie has -less- gunslots than in Vanilla. Two less.

Whatever little faith I have in the balance team, I'm sure they'd take care of the balance of their precious Kusari Destroyer should the model even be upscaled. And if it does become the best cruiser in the game? So what. At least it won't be a Gunboat any more.

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http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv46/Ni...gcloudscopy.png
Image turned into a URL because it made your sig too tall. -Zuke
|Ashes and Draya's Epic Adventure|Ashes "Nighthawk" Yotaka|Nightfall|Eva Jones|
[5:50:49 PM] JakeSG (William Darkmoor) says: I like you, Ashes. You're more cynical than God.

[Lance_Uppercut]

Knock down a few of its turrets and call it a Frigate.
Then as arvg said, time for some new stuff.

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::The Pennsylvania Liberation Force

[Zelot]

Mjolner,



This argument is stupid, you can explain to some people all day long how it' not unbalanced or over powered, you can talk about turrets and numbers all day. People wont listen, they dont care its the most underpowered Cruiser in the game, the most vulnerable to almost every other cruiser out there, and while Mjolner doesn't think a gb can beat it, I know for me a Trident with a CD can usually kill me by staying behind me and stopping me from Ekill.



I say up size it, size it with the other cruisers, give it 8 guns shooting to the sides and back, give it more heavy hard points, basically balance it to be the best cruiser in the game, just up size it, cause that is what people are asking for. Just make it like the Liberty Siege Cruiser, give it massive firepower and see how much people complain.



But your right, people dont seem to want diversity in this game, they just want a bunch of ships that all fly the same and look the same, they just want them to have different textures.

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[kalimero2]

ashe check Mjolnir's posts :)

btw

Kusari Dessie has -less- gunslots than in Vanilla. Two less.

so it was already nerfed... now I miss the point of this thread :mellow:

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[Jansen]

It is nice as it is, it can be easily killed by nearly everything if you just stay behind it and dont let it E-Kill.

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[cmfalconer]

Kind of a knee-jerk reaction there Zelot, but you're actually on the right track.

I've flown it, I've flown against it. Mjolnir's always saying that in a balance thread, someone should come in with a well thought-out idea, backed up not by rhetoric and hearsay, but by facts and data. Ashes did just that, and got the exact same reaction from the "other" side.

As was said earlier as well, resizing it to fit in with the rest of the class it's in doesn't necessarily mean it will be unbalanced. One has naught to do with the other. Obviously, a resizing would require a new balancing schema. Fine. Do it. Give it six rear-firing guns, one a heavy. Give it 4-6 side-firing guns, two heavies. Give it eight forward firing guns, one heavy. Give it a bit more armor to compensate for it's size increase. Fine, Fine, Fine.

Bring it more inline with the rest of the genre. Having five guns on a VHF (Wrath) or seven (Sabre) still makes them VHFs. Putting cruiser weaponry, shields, and armor on what is clearly a slow-turning gunboat doesn't follow the same lines.

Instead of bringing the "I'm right here's why", bring a "Hmm...we can try that and see." There's an autoupdater and Betas for a reason. Use them to their full advantage please.

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[mjolnir]

The fact it's Vanilla is not an argument against modifying it. This is a mod, no? We're supposed to change things. Hence the Sabre's reduced strafing. It was considered an imbalance, and thus removed. There really is no difference in scaling a model and altering ini files. The ships still look Vanilla, only they fly different.

Funnily enough vanilla Sabre turned slower than current Falcata does, while eagle turned faster than now.

How did disco change that? By making eagle larger? Nope.. by changing their turning to something in the middle.
Sabre still has less mass than any other VHF (some 20% less), hence it keeps it's character, Eagle still turns faster than any other VHF.

Lowering diversity, sure. But I'd question the role of the Kusari Dessie, what is the proposed role of it's 4.86 balance?

Kills any GB 1vs1, has a very hard time vs heavy cruisers, can do very well in groups, can't "kite", has a major weakness which can be exploited.
= exactly same as now

Past experiences are also not an argument. Just because something might go wrong, we should not try to make things better? And if it does fail, well then you can always fall back on the previous design. But at least you would have tried.

To change takes more than to remain; therefore we lay back in the comfort of our chains.

I'm sorry that I just spend 4 hours a day every day during last 1,5 month adding new things and balancing what it is problematic at the moment. Instead of changing things that are balanced right now.

=> What keeps you from resizing it yourself, testing it (needs just 1 more guy) and sending it if it works?

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.