Should Traders in RP, use Jump Holes?

[Bauer]

I think if the route can be done using lanes, then they shouldn't use jump holes.

If the route has to use a known jump hole or two, like the Texas-Minnesota one, then it should be ok to use them. My trader supplies the front lines of the Rheinland/Liberty war, which requires me to use jump holes to get to the BS Concord in New Hampshire.

---

[10:10:28 AM] Josh (Dejavu): Bauer is legendary to the LPI, I joined because I wanted to be that epic.

[DragonLancer]

As RepEx trader is say: Profit counts! Therefore we do not care about allegedly unstable jumpholes.

---

User was banned for: http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=147045
Time left: (Permanent)

[Cellulanus]

Where do you think those IMG Trains around Falkland come from? If the corporation operates in border world space, they're bound to use JHs once in awhile. Most people have figured out that Ageira's claim that JHs are unstable are bogus, most are pretty static.

The IMG are not a house corporation faction, they certainly don't have the contacts to set up a jump gate system and even if they did it would attract more attention then they would want.

[Unseelie]

Before the invention of Gates, before the application of lanes, corporate traders flew, for months, in the depths between stars. Risky? I'm sure.

Once gates were developed, the Houses expected pirates to die out, as the time differential would be too huge, but they didn't. They were using holes, and it hugely suprised the houses. They had no idea how the pirates were getting around. Eventually, they found out how. In the campaign, Juni knows of a couple, herself.

After that, after the houses figured out what was going on, after the IMG and the GMG, the Bounty hunters, and finally the Zoners, if the corporations had, by some bizzare stretch of the imagination, never discovered them by other means, you cannot imagine that they don't know of every jumphole known by the IMG, the Hunters, the Zoners, anyone would sell the information, to someone they barely know (such as, for example, Trent).

Once they know of the lanes, its simply a risk/profit assessment.
If the profits to be made outway the risk of losing insurance (and are we assuming that every insurance house is unwilling to insure jumphole traders, or just the ageria connected ones? or that they're -all- connected to ageria? Poppycock.) I've been pirated more often on lanes than I have in open space, as a lane is a line. Open space is a huge area, much harder to cover. Were I a pirate (and on occasion I am) I'd focus on the areas of highest traffic flow, the bottlenecks of Sirius, the tradelanes. And were I a trader worried about piracy, I'd -avoid- the lanes, which means, quite often, using the jump holes.

And, of course, Turkish is right.

---

[Cellulanus]

We have to keep in mind the possible side effects, after all you are hurling your ship into an uncontrolled and unregulated rip in the fabric of space, there is no way these thing are inherently stable.

Remember in SP there is also a lot of talk about "phase alignment?" Indicating that in order for a jump hole to be used it must be phased aligned. Now yes, this is not represented withing game play, but that only makes it one of many, many things in freelancer that exist in RP but not within the game.

[Turkish]

You just gave me an idea, have a cookie, I really just finish baking.

---

I have a fetish for all things Norse.

[Unseelie]

My position on Jumpholes as natural objects: Insane.

Sure, phase alignment. There was a question about one or two holes. We've no idea how long a hole is phase aligned for. Perhaps a couple years at a time? Maybe this would explain them being moved around systems, for example?

I imagine, and I've no backing for this beyond the ridiculousness of the assumption of so many systems with natural wormholes, that the Jump hole network are a D'K construct. You think this is ridiculous, of course, as they had a gate system, and instructions for building such things in valhalla, but I deal with this idea by assuming that gates are a low tech or brute force substitute for holes, vinel records for cds. The supergate? Super is a key word there. Easier to build a huge low tech object to cover the great distance than the more elegant stellar needlepoint of the jumphole network.

Jump Holes may be unregulated, uncontrolled, but I imagine they're much better built, and more secure, when they're not shifting their alignment (and probably include safety measures there, as well, like, for example, failing to work when they don't work) than the crude subsitutes used by humanity, and now the nomads.

---

[Baltar]

(In response to Baltar)

Should Traders in roleplay, use jump holes within the Discovery Universe?

In-game, they're a 'natural' gateway to other systems, a way for unlawfuls to get around more often than not, or when Houses have not expanded into the area.

This is my personal opinion:
No, I think that traders i.e Corporation traders, would and should not use jump holes. Why? Security, and insurance. Space is a dangerous place and most large companies in the modern world, have insurance to compensate these dangers. I honestly doubt that insurers would fork out money because a trader deviated from the 'paved route/trade lanes' to take a shortcut in remote space, further away from help. But that is Corporation traders.

With independent traders, there is no black and white. They're independent, freelancer traders, as long as the cargo is shipped, its their money. But its at their own risk.

In essence to RP, Corporation traders, No to jumpholes. Indies? It depends.

Now, what are your opinions?:yahoo:

Kudos to you Fletcher ... I saw this thread and it brought a smile to my face ... seriously it did.

I do think both are good discussions ... I just feel that we spend too much time trying to pigeonhole pirates into such tight and limited regulations that piracy is no longer fun. Remember the comments about "Freelancer 2012" while discussing whether CD's should be considered an attack? Same goes here ... we don't wanna make things SOOO restrictive for any one character type that there's no longer any incentive to role play that type of character. I am glad to see these two threads (both posted by you) for some serious consideration. I don't mean to force people to pirate or trade in these restrictive fashions ... but I do believe that people need to think a bit more about how serious they are about their role play. I get as tired of silent-speed-power-traders-who-won't-role-play as you are of terrorist-like-pirates. Both ruin the fun of role play.

Incidentally, I voted for option #4 but consider #3 and #4 together. Biggest problem we have right now though is that nearly 95% of traders on Disco are Indies. We've only got a few real true role playing Corporate Factions running around out there. So ... how do we solve this?

My LPI trader's run requires jumpholes.

Why? Because there are no gates to Guard systems, let alone barely-populated ones.

Corporations should not, Ageira especially.

"LPI" and "Trader" in the same name is a bit OORP if you ask me. LPI = Liberty Police, Inc. LPI are cops ... NOT traders. Traders are NOT cops. Cops may buy products manufactured by corporations and delivered by traders ... but cops do NOT actually manufacture nor do they trade in goods. Cops get their money from taxes levied by the house governments ... not by making money like a corporation. You're mixing ID's and IFF's that should not be mixed. Its like having a Civilian ID with a Navy IFF ... what? You can't be both military and civilian at the same time. The military fights wars to protect the civilian ... not the other way around.

[Robert.Fitzgerald]

Just a nitpick, the Bounty Hunters Guild forbids knowledge of jump hole / pirate base locations to be shared with outsiders. If a member lets the location slip to a police officer or civilian, they will suffer an "accident.

I don't think corporations would typically use the jump holes, but in certain situations and with certain corporations they would use them. Gateway for example would know that jump holes can be stable, given their IMG allies use them all the time, but they would not use them on every trip (unlike what is seen in game, trade lanes and jump gates would be reasonably safe)

---

~Gateway Interstellar~ Gateway)Gibraltar
Gateway Corporate Profile - Gateway Message Dump - Gateway Recruitment - Gateway Faction Feedback

[ProwlerPC]

I vote "depends on faction"
GMG has always known and used jump holes and don't seem concerned of them. In fact GMG NPCs are the ones you pay in that area of space for loactions of JH's. Their exploration ships map out as many as they can as well. As a faction we use them quite regularly especially in GMG space where they are part of our patrols.

---