Battleships- a solution

[Eppy]

"solve it in an rp-manner"

nice idea, easy to say, but what are you going to do if there are 6 Sarissas and dreads around Malta without giving a single sentence, nor responding to hails or any other attempts to roleyplay with them? Or if they are disobeying orders based on the outcasts laws only because they are given from a fighter pilot? Pull out the next Sarissa or Dread to talk to them as "equals" and get a proper answer? The only thing they would do is ask you for a training fight and it's pretty ridiculous if there are outcast capital ships blowing up each other in front of the planet. No thanks, no need to increase the capspam even further.

Oh and Grimly, maybe you noticed that it's about handling the own caps and not the enemy ones...

I'd just like to reinforce that six Sarissas and Ranseurs is not an exaggeration, I have seen six before, and four is a fairly normal occurrence.

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Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.

[silverleaf]

NO. In game stuff has been privatised too much already.

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Scavengers of the Abyss - A Freelancer Short Story

[Violette]

Don't flame me or the kitten gets it.



Just my opinion, nothing bugs me more than lolcaps interfering in good RP.

I don't decide the RP standards,



Fact: Roleplay server.

You NEED F@*#ing ROLEPLAY.

It's kind of a mandatory thing....

/leavethread

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[Durandal]

Voted other.

The way I see it is this: Any ship Battlecruiser sized and up MUST be in an official faction.

Indies wishing to purchase any Battlecruiser or larger sized vessel must make a special RP Request, and honestly, how often do you see the lolcaps posting on the forums? They don't go here, period. If they try, after a few attempts word will get around "omfg no dont bother dey wont giev capship 2 any1 nao". Problem solved. It may result in some whining, but the cure is a far better alternative than the disease we're dealing with currently.

[n00bl3t]

Don't flame me or the kitten gets it.
Just my opinion, nothing bugs me more than lolcaps interfering in good RP.

I don't decide the RP standards,
Fact: Roleplay server.

You NEED F@*#ing ROLEPLAY.

It's kind of a mandatory thing....

/leavethread

If I flamed you, it would be a lot more hostile.

So, you want to enforce RP standards which you know nothing about?

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Blighter]

Y'know, I see the options there and now that I'm writing it there's 33 votes for that there:

Yes- Make battleships Factional, but also allow well RP'd and well known players to purchase and keep their battleships as independants

Pretty clear, innit?

Lemme bold 'n color the part I've got a problem with for ya:

Yes- Make battleships Factional, but also allow well RP'd and well known players to purchase and keep their battleships as independants

Get it? You don't have to well known to RP well.
You don't have to be well known to be constructive asset to this community and overall RolePlay.
You don't have to be well known to be some "respected member of the community" or whatever either.
You. Don't. Have. To. Be. Well. Known. To. Not. Be. A. Lolwutting. Lolcap.

Now, that aside, there's something else:
I'm all for rare, but damn beefy and "epic" Battleship encounters.
And I don't mind the control over Battleship distribution to be handed to factions, or heck, factions with adminstratorial supervision to ensure things go smooth.
It sure would be a bit of a popularity contest in one way or the other, to an extent, but what I'd not like to see is some approach to it like including fees to even have one's Battleship and RolePlay be put up for consideration in the first place.
Having what's essentially asking the question "Can I, with my RP that I'm showing to you here as a background and foundation, be given control over my own Battleship?" - having that cost money and thus time and effort?
No need to make it unnecessarily hard, complex, and prolong the time until someone gets his/her YES or NO.

Moving on. The "problem" has rarely surfaced in the form of a Battleship or Dreadnought or whatever.
- Exception being, and I'll make a wild guess here, in Omicron Alpha and Gamma, so solving that with this thing is fine and dandy. -
Anyway, I'm saying rarely compared to how often it was present in the form of a Battlecruiser, Cruiser or Destroyer.
Now while that whole Battleship thingy touches on the whole "Lolcap" issue or whatever, it doesn't solve it.
Not at all.

Now what I'm seeing here is people trying to find some kind of rule approach to this problem which sooner or later would propably expand to cover Battlecruisers, Cruisers and Destroyers.
Not going to solve it that way, really.
Atleast not completely, and even if it'd make things better in terms of "LolBCs, LolCruisers, LolDessies", other problems would arise. For that matter, chances're it'd not get through to cover anything below a Dread in the first place.

Instead it'd be better if, and that's a big IF because it'll most likely not happen anyway, there was some way to smack around the "Lolcaps" left after the Battleships're covered with this thing here, and then tell 'em what they did wrong after they've messed up.
Show 'em the consequences of their actions, teach 'em how to avoid being a dreaded "Lolcap", that kind of thing.

Well, actually, as players we've got a way to do that.
Blow up the "Lolcaps" without mercy, then talk to them. Try to explain to them what's good and what's bad, how they could improve and all.

Two problems with that one, though.
First, it costs time. Time each and everyone of us could spend doing something else we like to do more.
Second, you can't cover all the "Lolcaps" that way, and there will always be some who will -not- want to change the way do things.
Well or simply some who just aren't that good with the English language.

So what with those?
Sometimes having the smacking delivered via a .beam or .kill would propably reach places in the depths of people's brains a couple Supernova Cannons can't reach, I'm sure.
And if it worked with some kind of "Complaint System", something like that what Joe said in his post, it'd be fine, no?
Would be just like filing a sanction report, in essence.
Write a bit, throw in your "proof", submit. Ta-da!
No more work for me, let the Admins solve the problem!
Oh yeah, wait, that -would- be a problem, people picking the easy way out.
Well, the sanction system seems to work, so whatever, eh?

Positive side of it is that for those "Lolcaps" who do not read the forums and were subject to such smacking it might end up purely beneficial in the long run.
How? By getting them to the Forums, where they can see threads like this here, and benefit from all that knowledge around here - even if they'd just come here out of anger over what happened.

And if that don't work? <strike>Use more gun.</strike> Bastille for the ship. No refunds, no remorse.
'Cept if they, and I think that's a fun idea, trade up themselves another capital ship, since they'd be free to do so, and actually show that they learned while playing with that one.

As it is right now however, if any Administrator was to do one such .kill or .beam, that'd fall under the Admin Power Abuse category, if I remember right.

Hypothetically speaking, if such a system was implemented, and that's a big IF again, there's one thing to bear in mind:
Everyone flying a capital ship could end up being the recipient of such a treatment, in theory.
Even you and me.
Tough luck.

If you want an easy and workable solution for the "Lolcap" problem that doesn't even require communicating with them beyond the bare minimum of an engagement notice, and, more importantly, does NOT involve having any additional power being handed to anyone?

Get some friends with you, grab half a dozen or more Bombers, and blast whatever "Lolcaps" are in your way to bits.
Once Battleships were covered by this thing here, you'd just face relatively easy-to-pop BCs, Cruisers, Dessies.
Question is though whether everyone around them, and that's players of all kinds, not just "Lolwuts", will let you, or whether they'll take part in blasting you alongside the "Lolcaps".

What can I say, people hate to lose.

Back on topic, Ima vote 2. The "well known" part irks me a bit, and I'd rather see the decisions being not just based on some written Wall o' Text only, but epic-style Battleships would be mega awesome.
(I'm thinking Freespace 2 here, for anyone who's played that. Wham bam, Colossus or Shivan Juggernaut in your face.)
I'd just not like the thing to be extended to the lower capital ship classes in the same way, hence that wall above.

That said:

[Pinko]

I wish I wasn't that much of a one-liner poster, but the fact that I'm French doesn't help it at all.

Independants have a lot more RP potential than any single faction, simply because they aren't restricted. The best RPers I've seen always were indies, and I'm pretty sure you agree, too.

Factions are restricted and are only there to give an example of how a faction should act, and -not- control the entire NPC faction. If you wish to try something a little bit erratic, your superiors will ground you, while the Independant can do that little step.

Yes, blow up the lolcaps. As much as you wish. But do not cut yourselves from great RP opportunities.

<div align="right]Jessicka Beaupre, supporter of Independant players.

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I want to get off Mr. Igiss' wild ride.

[Agran Harper]

>>yessir. i fail to see a simpler outcome because this is the internet, and here anyone can be (and most are) as arrogant, rude, bashful, ignorant, egotistical or anything else they wish, since arguing over an internet forum has no real life consequence. You are one person amongst many. im taking the majority into consideration. I agree that if there are too many people ignoring the standards and the netiquette, then consequences must follow. Yet, consider the minority as well. Even though I dislike self quoting in public... I cannot help it this time;

...but I can assure you this (if I can assure anything at all) that I?m as far from the "I bbq u 4 greater lawl u lulznuub" mentality as I can possibly be. Just because its the Internet, it is no excuse for being not reasonable and not treating others as you normally would when you face them eye to eye.

But back on topic;

>>"solve it in an rp-manner"
nice idea, easy to say, but what are you going to do if there are 6 Sarissas and dreads around Malta without giving a single sentence, nor responding to hails or any other attempts to roleyplay with them?
Well... then report them because it is against the rules?

6.6 PvP combat is allowed only on roleplay basis. The pilot who is attacking must scan for an ID prior to the attack. Relying on general reputation status (red/neutral/green) without scanning for the ID is not allowed.
6.21 Attacking without an engagement notice is not allowed. All attacks must be preceded with some form of RP, regardless of NPC faction diplomacy.
6.24 Sanctions for violating ID rules and RP engagement rules are: credit/equipment fine, placing inside the prison system, ban for up to 30 days.

Engaging like you stated is a crude violation of these rules, and should be reported and sactioned accordingly, or did I miss something? Banning a lolcap for 30 days = win?

But back to back on topic;
Yes I know real life comparisms to game cause death stares of oblivion to be fired at the person who attempts to. I'm so glad I got immunized to them.
Before you become the "pilot" of anything worth a size mentioning, this guy has to have a) the reputation b) the rank c) the expertize to do so (of course there is "d" which is bribe, but oh well, you cannot bribe your way to be the captian of a carrier in our world anyways without having piloted any other bigger ship before. So there ARE limits). This all comes in junction with certain prerequisites. It should also be realized, what actually a capital ship IS. Its just not money. No, most importantly, its resources and manpower behind all that. We read the infocards on several asteroid fields which have been mined out because of the industry demanding it. Perhaps the ship YOU are piloting was made from the very last scratches of one of these ores, combined with refined scrapmetal processing? Then there is the manpower factor; How large the crew of a battleship or any other capital must be these days? dozens? hundreds? Definitely too much to be given command over a ship like this just by a whim.
And the way it currently is; it IS just a whim. And it has nothing to do with satisfying RP background or recommendation of others.

Of course some things can (and perhaps) will be rigged, but only to an extent the paradigma of this setting allows. If there are too many corrupt guys, with too many voices raising against them, then the administrators will have to do something against that, else the whole reputation of the server is down the loo.

As far as it can get with "subcapitals"; apparently they can be handled pretty well by the rest. It seems its really just the biggest two classes of ships that are really being a nuisance. If the players can handle lesser vessels properly, then they will (and should) handle them accordingly in the future.
And how often did I read that trying to explain something to a lolwutcapper is a decision of "run/fight and live now or die trying" not to mention that it is almost impossible to get somebody off that road if he already grinded that much to become a lolwutcapper in the first place? Some people just do not change and thats a given fact. I'm certain that somebody tries to get some kind of "mindset" or - behave - RP into the heads of a lolwutcapper... but only trying to do so does not automatically make it happen and succeeding with it anyhow. As I mentioned just now; grinding that long, and actually having the MINDSET to GRIND for a battleship on a ROLEPLAY server... well, goes without words.

Fact is; Roleplay server. Fact is; any capital ship is listed. Fact is; any capital ship has to be announced for production just because of the vast amounts of resources and manpower needed to run one. Fact is; Roleplay server again! Fact is; if there wouldn't be so many people "abusing" the game current mechanics to grind for Battleships, this problem would never have been stated. There is a situation which apparently pisses of a good chunk of the community, and just because of that (and because its a roleplay server - the third) the need for discussion and consequences arises, naturally.

That said, the need to log out and go to sleep arises, else I face the consequences to headbob my neck out at work. good nite.

(( and blighter as some points))

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To hunt the prey is life,
to lose the prey is death,
to hunt the loss is insane...

[Galacius]

Im back from a class and I must say I have cooled off a bit. You know I am all for mandatory (like bastille type if you dont follow it) ship registrations, but totally against having factions control it for many points covered earlier.

The thing I think no one realizes is no matter what you do, shy of making discovery invite only or such, will get rid of the lolwut problem. You make it so they cant get bs/hybrids they will get cruisers, no cruisers gunboats then bombers then fighters then whatever is left. There will always be people abusing it and treating it like their own personal shooting gallery. Restricting the ships may curtail it but wont magically get rid of the problem like a lot of people think.

[Mickk]

Voted 2.

I have to say, I haven't yet seen a 'lolcap' while I've been on the server.

Maybe I haven't been in the right place.

Just to make it clear, what is the definition of a 'lolcap'?

I get the feeling that it's a capital ship that is just used for blowing up random things/people with no specific RP reason, kind of like a LN Dread trashing the 'locals' (read as peeps who hang out in NY on a regular basis) for no other reason than they are bored.

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Mickk: One orginal, 4 clones. Telp..teleh....mind comu...comi..come...talking ability.
A possibly very ordinary signature coming soon.
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