Powergaming/Metagaming/Powerplaying

[Zelot]

---Incoming Transmission---

---Douglas Bader, BHG|Core-Grampus---

Exalted Guildmaster -

Our ship was forced by circumstances to take a different route to Deshima. At this point we're actually attempting to deal with their supply lines. Minor details that these Kusari seem to forget - they have a VERY large and VERY open back door. Ah, well, must come from not actually being used to fighting against worthy opponents.

In any event, this shogun of theirs seems rather determined to get his men back. How about the planetary governor of Honshu? Seems that he and his police escort somehow or other stumbled into my cargo bay. I'd suggest that life of his cousin might be worth calling off his dogs...



---End Trasmission---

This is the post Dab was referring to, it was something he and I were discussing last night. Now, as you know, I am not one for defending Dab, but in this case, it was not about the Joker, but instead the post above this writing, a shining example of power gaming from one of our Moderators.

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[Dab]

Either way, I stick to what I've said here:
And regarding this part:
Are you denying my statement that as a regular player, not leader of an official faction you requested from Admins to fix the Joker's and Thugs' rep and that it was granted?

I was speaking about the issue of you thinking this was about the Joker. Yes, I asked admins for a rep change, as CoZ chairman (CoZ is granted some faction rights, and has been since Malaclypse was the chair. Example; We have a message dump when it is only allowed for factions). Regardless of what *I* thought on the matter, the admins had the final say. If they told me the threat wasn't significant enough to warrant repping him hostile, I would've been perfectly fine with it and continued on my way. Many non-admin players also gave valid reasons why said person would be hostile to Zoners after making his threat. This was covered in another thread completely, don't drag it in here.

Well Dab we all think this is about Joker. Isn`t powergaming not to listen to joker demands and staying on position as a council chairman ( well it`s a game no one can make you to step down on your position, what kind of RP is to let bunch of people die, you could at least act as leaving the chairman position to see what will happen with bombs)...that was powergaming or powerroleplaying

If this were about the Joker, I would've posted something like this days ago. Also, how is it powerplaying to not give in to a terrorist's demands? So if someone was RPing the president of Liberty (Powell) and he didn't resign because the Xenos told him he had to, he's powerplaying? That makes no sense at all...

And again, this is not about the Joker incident. Ask him yourself, I RP'd with him in-game and extensively on the forums.

Dab, can you specify exactly what you meant with powergaming, in this recent incident, and also for the one where there was the mentioned thread?

Would be useful to have as many concrete examples of what is called 'powergaming' or 'metagaming' ingame. Right now it cant really be discussed because we would have to guess what you mean.

What I mean by powergaming is RPing something that your character wouldn't be able to do. Metagaming is when your RP your character knowing something they shouldn't know, or 'hacking' into secure communications they don't have access to (the latter is the most common example of it).

1: Joker asking you to resign from your Zoner position because he didt like what you did to one of his friends

Unless he's angry about something that happened OORP, than this is not powergaming. I don't think that was the case for that situation anyway. I'm not saying Joker powergamed, this thread is directed to several other situations. I'd name them, but I don't want this to be a trial by forum, it's meant to be a word of advice to those doing it or thinking of doing it. If the Joker situation was what I was concerned with, I'd have taken it to the Joker privately.

If thats the one you mean, I think its a legitimate thing to do in RP. I think you handled that situation very well, by not giving in. It was the correct thing to do, and what any goverment would have done (for example german gov didnt bow to the RAF rote armee fraktion). A small comment... if he had done the same thing to someone else, admins possibly wouldnt have set him red with all zoners. It was the right thing to do, but I think it wouldnt have been done to help many other zoners apart from you.

If the demand had been made to another Zoner, but with the same threat (bomb on stations), I'd have asked the admins for a rep change then as well. It wasn't because he targeted me, it was because he targeted Zoners. If, for example, the threat had been aimed directly at me ("if you don't resign in 48 hours, I'll kill you") no rep change would have been requested, for the threat wasn't at the Zoners, but at a single individual. Again; Not the situation this thread is aimed at.

2: Another thing that I consider meta/powergaming is this: taking up a position agianst your own faction or allies to help someone who would actually be your enemy, because of personal relations with players.
Many examples for this. Saronsen shot Order ships to defend oracles (because he didnt like the Order players), he sided with Outcasts and Phantoms to shoot LN (because he didnt liek the navy players), and was as I hear very triggerhappy with is juggy.
The argument that is almost put forward is 'fairness' and that the other people are 'pvp-whore', but the REAL reason is that you rather side with the players behind the characters, because they your friends or you consider them more influencial.
Of course the peopel that you shoot or the allies that you dont help notice this, and it really cooks up tempers.

This would be one concrete example of powergaming, yes. It was one of the reasons for this thread, but far from the sole one.

What are the concrete examples you consider powergaming?

The reason I haven't given concrete examples in this thread is that I don't want to make this a trial-by-forum. It was never meant to be. The people who are doing it know who they are, and the people who aren't doing it may think twice before doing it, but I'm not going to put them on the spot in front of the community for it.


@Zelot; That is not helping...

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[dead_shot]

Urgh, nasty... That one deserves a fair trial-by-forum which will result in loss of the moderating rights *laughs*

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the path to hell is paved with good intentions!

[Akura]

Plausible Deniability?

[Guest]

If this were about the Joker, I would've posted something like this days ago. Also, how is it powerplaying to not give in to a terrorist's demands? So if someone was RPing the president of Liberty (Powell) and he didn't resign because the Xenos told him he had to, he's powerplaying? That makes no sense at all...

Liberty is a House with its friend and foes and you can not compare it to Zoners
Zoners are non hostile peace lovers who would do anything to avoid fight/war/killing.. You didn`t show us Zoner in your char..you showed us Dab in your char... That what I am talking about... Don`t get it personal but in RP/real life situation any Zoner chairman would step off its position to prevent act of terrorism on its people. If we are looking in this situation you just made Zoners go to give their life for your position...as I heard zoners are now in hostile relations with Joker and thugs ?

Don`t get me wrong, It`s just the way I see it (powergaming in a way)...

EDIT: But ok, this has became off topic.

[Sprolf]

This is the post Dab was referring to, it was something he and I were discussing last night. Now, as you know, I am not one for defending Dab, but in this case, it was not about the Joker, but instead the post above this writing, a shining example of power gaming from one of our Moderators.

Oh.

I discounted that post when I made my assumptions.
I assumed that it made with OoRP agreements, just because... well, er...

*coughs*
Mmhm.




My point, however, still stands.
Do we get annoyed by this, or do we attempt to play along with it?


*leaves thread*

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[Vrahn]

It's hardly powergaming to refuse giving in to a terrorist's demands, as almost anyone with a decent head on their shoulders would know that one demand just leads to another. But yeah powergaming is fail. QQ

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[The Joker]

Let me tell you, people... I really hate typing in non-RP sections of forum. I really do. No matter how many times you even type something positive about the people, there is always gonna be some unhappy I-don't-have-girlfriend-and-I'm-generally-unpleasant jerk who'll type something negative.

I don't know who or what Dab was referring to and I don't care, but I'll confirm that he brilliantly RPed when we met in-game. I've already gave kudos to him and ALL of others who CREATIVELY participated in "event" which took a LOT OF EFFORT AND TIME to realize. Thanks to all of those people, again. And thanks to all of people who sent their PMs of support.

As for Dab's forum RP - I'll just say that I expected more (which DOESN'T mean that I think it was bad) from a veteran player such as himself. Again, let me point out - I mean ONLY his forum RP. That's all. It's honest, it's fair. I don't hold grudge against anyone nor it would be healthy for anyone to hold grudge against me. I believe that I created a suitable grounds for many people to participated in this. And they did. And it was fun. And I still expect Zoners to organize commemoration service and maybe even to invite the Joker to court or something. Just wait for my next scenario. I don't wanna rush it, though. But it will create an opportunity, again, for people to ignite their chars and participate in another, more massive event.

Power-gaming? I'll just speak for myself - I did no such thing. In this scenario I left many people, not just Dab's character, with a choise. I spoke to many players for opinion if this was power-gaming and NOT ONE single person told me that this was anything like that.

For those less smart people who think (not thought) I'm copy/paster... Blah, blah! For you info, in my posts 90% of stuff is mine, and only mine. The fact that is was RPed (in my opinion) the way that it reminds you on the Joker himself, is effect I just wanted. All other material is not only used from The Dark Knight the movie, but from other sources as well, such as comic books, cartoons etc. When I DO copy/paste I tend to use so much powerful Joker's lines as seldom as possible, not only to increase drama in surrounding enviroment but to save his other lines for future events as well.

AkuraWr "I don't like the Joker, he doesn't belong here. He is, literally, a carbon copy of the one from Batman." I don't mind that you don't like me, but I don't belong here? Is this how you THANKED ME after I didn't report you when your Reaper Luxuria posted in comm channel NOT ADDRESSED to your char? Btw... Aren't you a Phantom? This is rhetorical question.

http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...=53421&st=0 Post 2, A.D.M.I.N.S.

Thanks again for everyone who participated. Now I gotta go and see who set me up my FIRST sanction.

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[... kur nubėgo?]

Even if he is a joker similiar looking and behaving in disco, he is disco freelancer charater. From my encounters I had with him were all intresting and only fl related as I see it.

As for the event that took place, that was actually awsome. Even if I didn't participated it was very intresting to track how the matters will envolve. So I say thanks. As well kudos to rest of the zoners who agreed to play the game.

as for dab... heh. Holding the personal dislikes.. I think you should think about yourself now, who is meta/powergaming here. Uh? I hope this won't ruin further events with Joker character. besides all this thread looks more like "trial-by-forum" just first post seemed to have a hidden meaning mentioned in few lines of it.

well all in all I hope to see more theater around. This is really intresting. Hoping that someone personal dislikes won't ruin it.

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Omega Pirates Guild

History of OPG | Antonio "Vilkas" Devivar

[Reacher]

All this talk about the Joker is waaayyy off topic. It was great RP from my veiw and that's that.

From what I've seen and been victim to is miners:

1) F1ing in the field the minute you jump into the system.

2) I chase them into their base then the next second they pop out in an BS.

3) Sending all their extra cash off their miner and try to use their level as an excuse for why they shouldn't be pirated for a substantial amount.

Nothing clearly against rules, but it does ruin the pirating experience and is the reson why demands go up and are often non RP'ble down with many including my self.