' Wrote:Thing is, I am no big bomber pilot. It just surprises me that still in the bomber I can kill fighters. I know folks too who can bring bomber and last olol long. Not about that.
Ill specify.
Bombers > Anything bigger then fighter bombers included.
I yet again ask why 800 mil BS when it gets scrapped by 80 mil worth bombers. I miss zhe point. And no, I dont argue here cause I have 4 battleships. Ive blown several dozen of those in my flying time on Disco. Just curious...
Maybe in that particular event the Fighters in question were simply flying in a way that gave you the opportunity to launch a SNAC? Flight-movements such as jousting a Bomber without shields or not strafing enough usually leads to that. That dosen't justify an imbalance, that only shows that Bombers have the ability just like any other ship-class in the game to be able to kill any other ship-class if the opponent fly badly enough.
I can guarantee you that a Battleship can kill a group of four Bombers if they flied badly enough. But because that happens does that give me the right to say Battleships are imbalanced? Of course not.
The second argument regarding the price of a ship is completely irrelevant as to how balance works. Since you used this as an argument I won't bother spending time trying to explain to you why that statement is completely wrong but I'm fairly confident that the balance team will never treat such a trivial matter as a balance-factor.
Nah. As someone once said, give RoS sabres and they vaporize a dread. And I agree. When its getting bigger, it deserves more nerfing, simply cause of abusement.
Or maybe some folks are not fond of trading so they cannot afford a BS so they rant against it.
Point of this topic is to propose a weapon to give battleships SOME ability to combat bombers at range. Right now, they are unhittable.
I ask myself complete different question>
why should lolwut powertraders&powerminers receive I pwn everything Battleship?
Simple : they dont deserve it, thats why BS sux . Every idiot can make 800 mill for BS and 860 mill for Cap8. So?
Why should this idiots be capable of pwn everything? You can make 1 bill in 1 or 2 weeks - powermining/powertrading/powerpirating. The amount of credits dont show your worth as player and member of this community.
On the other hand I agree that Battleships need buff- but not all of them.The only solution to this is factions to demand receiving buffed capital ships- Couple per faction- with buffed stats and buffed guns. And nerf the rest capitals even more reducing their stats and price.
The balance of the capital ships isn't possible by just giving them good guns/stats or giving them not good guns/stats. The important thing is who flys the ship and how will act with it? The more powerful the more responsible/abusable as everything in RL.
Note: Reptile I write in general giving my opinion. I dont mean to insult you or flame the topic.
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
I would never take that as insult when you are stating your opinion. I agree the main drawback for such weapons is generally stupidity amongst most cap users. If possible, id help to reduce that. I cant, so I just try to get the weapons that prevent me from dying to bomber spam so fast.
Thats just me. Nor to mention, no matter how good guns you have, there is always something to pwn you.
' Wrote:While I agree that the screening ship idea is what discovery lacks, let me reply to couple point of yours Ashes.
1. They are not close to being a battleship. If you can fly, only thing you can really challenge with battleship is another battleship. Decent cruiser pilots and lower can wipe floor with battleships. I believe there is a reason for BS to cost so many much times more then the fighter or bomber. I do not want ultimate pwn ship in the game. For that, adding thruster is sufficient to battleship and voila. I am more reffering to ability to battleship to defend itself.
2. As I stated, you cannot get always a screen of ships to fly with you. Even after that, it only attracts bigger bomber spam. Ive witnessed it lots of times in Taus, Ransuer with Storta / tridente cover just dies as well, since we focus down the smaller ones an then snipe big from distane. BAttleship itself is zero usefulness in such engagement.
3. Bomber tear the crap out of anything. And frankly, given their size, hull and prize, they should be the sort of ultimate ship. Not the bombers. They are pwn enough with SNAC already. Swarm of bomber is one thing, but two bombers slaughtering cap 8 battleship, thats different story That should not happen at all. But eh, it happens always.
4. Would be neat and give cruisers a purpose. Or give battleships better AA armament. If we keep reffering to older ones, they had such guns too. They could hit bombers from distance where bombers couldnt. Now its turned around. No matter how much and big guns you can fit on battleship, with only single player to operate it, it does not matter if you got some tactical sense and dont fly straight.
I agree on some points, but really battleships are second most useless class of ship on the server. If people hate them so much and nerf them even more, what is the point of having them? To RP? What RP is that? Imma go shoot you?
I have seen several caps RPing (Seth onboard LN dread, or LSC Fires of Liberation), but presence of such ship only attracts bomber spam. And really, no matter how big escort you get, equally big bomber squadron tears you apart.
Hell my cap 8 Zephyr lost battle to group of sabres. And it had full solaris. Now that aint a balance. To refer to your point 3 - anything can tear up lone battleship. And seeing fighters do it, it is sad.
All I'm saying is, if you make Battleships too good, then the only way to kill a Battleship is with another Battleship. Then we might as well remove every other ship in the game and start everyone of with a Starflier equivilant of a Battleship.
Would you be happy then? Probably. But some of us like our snubcraft.
Currently you have to be good with a Battleship to get any where. I remember the time the LNS-AWESOME took out half the LN fleet by it's self. In otherwords, problem exists between chair and keyboard.
' Wrote:But mounting 4+ shieldbusting bomber guns mean you only need to get caught in the blast once to lose shields.
Shows how much research you put into your argument. Takes 3 or 4 shots to drop a fighter shield.
Right so you claim I cant fly my cap. Mkay.
I just refrain from replying to that. I understand that the uber fear of you all that ships you cannot afford might get too good is over any valid argument. I have obliterated big enough force today with my battleship. Including bombers. And LABCs. And Dread. And smalls. And yet I keep my point. 2 bombers > battleship.
Thats about it. If you do not give BS a weapon to defend fine, I have to live with it. Long live bombers. But do not move the part to the personal level mkay?
And yes, single bomber can kill cruiser. I have seen it. Sad enough. Two such can kill battleship. ANY battleship.
Quote:Battleships are not supposed to be epic pwn machines that can wipe the floor with every other ship in the game. They are supposed to be weak to Bombers.
Battleships are not supposed to fly solo, they are supposed to fly in fleet engagements against other fleets of ships.
Bombers are supposed to be able to tear the crap out of a lone battleship without much hassle.
Giving Battleships better defenses only strengthens the mind set that people have of Battleships being the 'ultimate ship'
No,
I say remove Flak and Solaris from Battleships altogether to make it clear they are not built for anti-bomber/fighter defense. Give Flak to Cruisers and give them decent Solaris instead, making Crusiers better and defending themselves and allied Battleships.
Lol, No. The whole concept of freelancer is choice to outfit your ship to its duties. If you feel better at eating tiny insignifficant fly ships in one bite, you'd mount all solaris.
If you want to pwn caps (which isnt really true anymore, since battleships are now useless against competent Destoyer pilots) then you'd mount primaries, cerbs and Mortars.
Sadly, Heavy battleships do not have a solaris type weapon with a range that reaches the end of their ship, let alone other people.
Hopefully, Mjolnir will fix this, and ill have one less thing to bitch about.
Quote: but two bombers slaughtering cap 8 battleship,
I agree, it should take three, but the bomberwhore lobby here is massive.
Quote:And yes, single bomber can kill cruiser. I have seen it. Sad enough. Two such can kill battleship. ANY battleship.
' Wrote:And yes, single bomber can kill cruiser. I have seen it. Sad enough. Two such can kill battleship. ANY battleship.
I have to disagree here. Unless it's the Kusari Destroyer flown horribly, a Bomber has a very hard time killing a Cruiser all by it's lonesome. I know this very well from experience. It's not impossible, no, not by any stretch of the word, but it is exceedingly difficult. With the assistance of a single other craft, Fighter, even, the task gets much, much easier. I'll tell you right now, I consider myself to be a good Bomber pilot and an adequate PvPer, but I will never take a 1v1 fight against a Cruiser in a Bomber, but I will almost always take a 2v1 fight against a Cruiser.
The same applies for a Battleship, really, though the numbers are inflated. I would say that even 3 average Bombers have a pretty difficult time attacking a Battleship with Secondaries or anti-snubcraft weaponry, but this is pretty much where the tipping point is. It's quite difficult (and time consuming) to kill a Battleship with 2 Bombers. It's much easier with 3, but still room for mistakes. With 4 bombers, you'll probably win. In fact, if you don't win with 4 bombers, you should probably put your glasses on.
This is all a part of the balance. What you're really forgetting is that Bombers are pretty much the counters to Battleships and Cruisers. Battleships are made to destroy Cruisers and Gunboats. Cruisers are made to destroy Gunboats and Battleships. Bombers are made to destroy Cruisers and Battleships. There's a good reason as to why they're so potent against Cruisers and Battleships. As a Battleship pilot, you should be just as distraught at seeing 2+ Bombers as a Bomber pilot should be distraught at seeing a Gunboat. That's just how the balance is. Battleships aren't made to destroy Bombers. Bombers are made to destroy Battleships.
[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.
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