Yet another Zoner topic

[Harcourt.Fenton.Mudd]

I think one of the real issues is that people feel that they can't be their own Zoner with the ZA in place, as in it sets the precedent for how they should play.

Thus showing they dont understand Zoners.

ZA only speaks for it's members, when it comes to indies we're not responsible for them, however we DO try to work in the intersts of everyone.

It's the same as any ID that has an offical faction, really, should [LN] dissolve because they prevent people from RPing navy how they want ?

Should the OC govt dissolve, because they prevent OC indies from playing how they want ?

[Turkish]

Of course not, and please be aware that I didn't say those beliefs are true, just that some people hold them and it influences their thoughts and reactions.

I think in part thaat the formation of the ZA as it did left some of the more oppositional parties with a sour taste in their mouths, and for others the unification that it's shown is contrary to their ideals for the Zoners (mine included).

We may not agree with each other entirely, but I don't see why that should stop people from speaking their minds and trying to reach compromises with the ZA if they take issue with their (your) RP.

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I have a fetish for all things Norse.

[sovereign]

There's a difference between change and complete change in direction, power, and goals. The Zoners exploded in power in the past two decades because Igiss thought they were actually several centuries older and several order of magnitude more populous than they were in vanilla. Every other reason is just a justification found to rationalize this.

If we did things again, I would not support many of the changes that were made in previous years under that assumption- notably, the inclusion of Zoner warships. However, what's done is done- the Zoners have warships, though they are so spread out that they are still should need to balance on knives to avoid the wrath of anyone in particular. Like the GRN, who don't have the ethical bindings of the other houses and see no reason not to flatten you... you shelter and supply criminals, after all. (Remember, in vanilla, Liberty was on the verge of annexing a nearby Zoner base unless the Zoners closed docking rights to criminals.)

The main issue the Zoners face that can actually be addressed is the perception that they are a unified force to be reckoned with. Declaring war on the Zoners is not something most people can do casually, but that's not because the Zoners could actually overpower them- for one, the concept of a Zoner offensive is insane (though banding together for defense is quite reasonable), but also because just about everyone- Zoners included- is taxed to the brim as it is. No one save the Houses can casually declare war on anyone (and they can't casually start wars with each other); it takes some serious grievances to justify such a risk given the precarious state of Sirius. (Active alliance with one's enemies might be considered a serious grievance.)

In truth, the Zoners are more of a confederacy than anything else- if a member of the Zoner Alliance decided they didn't want to take part anymore, no one would use force or economics to try and stop them. This is not to say that they could act with hostility toward the Zoner Alliance without arising their ire- the ZA would best treat them exactly like they would treat an outsider.

There are a few other huge points that go along with this, of course. For example, I really don't see why the various Zoner groups would send military aid to each other for anything that doesn't threaten all Zoners (remember, just because the Zoners are not internally organized as a unit, doesn't mean that outsiders won't decide that getting rid of one group of Zoners is any different from exterminating them all). Remember, confederacy.

I'd post more, but I'm really hungry. *poof*

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[Politus]

I don't lead it.

I'm just saying that things have strayed away. The Noms are back, there's Gallia, there's the BHG waging war for alien weapons, and the Outcasts and Corsairs have become houses. There's too much power. Just too much. And frankly, we don't know what to do with all this power. Zoners are just reserving it. That's what makes them a threat. You don't just build a bunch of carriers and super-massive juggernauts and still retain neutrality. People get paranoid. They plot.

But the true issue with Zoners in Disco is this: It's a unified entity and it's just too damn powerful. And all that power is doing nothing. It's just there. Watching. Waiting.

So I've been reading this thread 'n' stuff, and I read this, and I thought, "Wait, what?"

Your problem with them is that they're not using their weight to bludgeon other people?

:mellow:

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"Things will not calm down, Daniel Jackson. They will, in fact, calm up."

[Exsiled_one]

This entire thing can relate to junkers too.
I don't see a big fuss about anything here. Once someone does make a zoner faction that's based on sole freeport we can discuss things then

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<span style="color:#33CC00">I AM GIVING AWAY MONEY TO CREATIVE MINDS*</span>

[kersch_wasser]

i beleive i speak with some of the peopel atleast in this thread...


the reason why zoners are currently mindblowingly bogus..is that there plot and power and the reason for it is more bogus than a 007 movie....its worse than an austin powers movie...and so on


i mean atleast with my oddball rp is remain in the realm of far fetched...but the zoners are acting like lolwuts on acid or something....there about as useless and without form as a flock of brain damaged seagulls...all of the stuff about why there "zoners",they abandoned when they claimed to have (and were later granted) greater resources and fleets than moust houses could manage

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Dropping from the 3rd-story dorm room I'm in would be painful.

[Jinx]

well, thank you, nameless - it is always good to see respect for other peoples gameplay and roleplay to go around. - even if they are "...acting like lolwuts on acid or something....there about as useless and without form as a flock of brain damaged seagulls". ( imo - that is one of the differences... you haven t seen any zoner faction insulting "others" the way you go around insulting them - have you? - but at least you haven t used any dirty words, cause that d be hurting the kiddies )


sadly thought your imagination appears to be limited when you speak of greater power and stuff than houses. - cause that means that you project the playerbase to be representative for the npc factions state.

mind you - other players consider house militaries almost infinitely large ( or as large as not to care for counting every single ship you deploy or loose ) - while one considers maybe every zoner ship to be just what they have.

which would mean - zoners might have like 20 - 30 juggernauts, and the houses have 20-30 played by players and 2000-3000 not played by players but still there.



it is a fact that every popular faction gained power well beyond their capabilities - while unpopular factions mostly remained "fair" to their power. we have factions that build themselves guard systems that withstand a combined assault large fleets - we have factions that came from nowhere to power, we have factions that battled each other in fighters which were the pride and joy - and now they battle each other in huge capital ships.

we have factions that got their politics and lore turned around 180 degrees, twisted and perverted, and we have countless systems that derail from vanilla in so many ways.



those that speak of vanilla - and how one faction MUST adhere to it ... .should start at THEIR faction first... once they succeeded, they may look over to other factions.

but i find very few who demand "back to vanilla" and mean their own faction.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Exsiled_one]

The general problem is that someone somewhere out there was an ******* at start and he said "the best way to trade is to be a zoner"

And there are actually people that come here for pure PVP, because there's plenty of people and then they have to cope with roleplay to get their PVP fix. Since they can't cope with roleplay in a trader because it lacks guns. So they want to make trading as painless as possible.

While that was possible and easy before, the "roleplay awareness" of the server has risen and people started to roleplay trading factions and non combat factions as well. Forging relationships and demanding from their enemies / neutrals / allies the same.

So along comes zoner full of contraband in his 5k train and defends with his neutrality. Worst thing's worst? The other side lets the zoner slide and idiocity starts.
We're the ones that made zoners like this (we as the community) and now we have to battle it all and fix it.

I honestly never thought zoners will be advanced as much as they are, and I would love to see them being a invite only group. Picking Zoners first in this game is like going to university before high school. You simply lack a general knowledge of how things work to represent zoners, and by the time you actually learn, you have developed your own opinion on Zoners and you think you are the one who's correct. It's a magic circle.

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<span style="color:#33CC00">I AM GIVING AWAY MONEY TO CREATIVE MINDS*</span>

[Wood]

Just a quick reminder that the ZTC has a feedback thread here. Please feel free to share your thoughts about us. Thankyou.

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Les Enfants Perdus
BPA)

[n00bl3t]

You simply lack a general knowledge of how things work to represent zoners, and by the time you actually learn, you have developed your own opinion on Zoners and you think you are the one who's correct. It's a magic circle.

I honestly never thought zoners will be advanced as much as they are, and I would love to see them being a invite only group.

No, thank you. Feel free to restrict yourself from becoming a Zoner though.

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.