the entire core is founded by "mere bounty hunting" - and they RP to have plenty of battleships.
since you must have a core ID to use a battleship - it means you are founded by all the little helpers - but you do not do the bounty hunting yourself ( no one says that it must be YOUR bounty hunting paying for your ship )
"...the Core is meant to be a very domineering force towards everyone, arrogant and self-righteous, this means that whether you like it or not, the whole idea of the Core is contrary to any sort of kind 'neutrality', we are not in the habit of being nice to anyone (this has even brought us into conflict with the LN). Secondly, the Core are NOT Bounty Hunters, we ARE a part of the Guild, but we do NOT EVER hunt Bounties, we are a private army, so I suggest you read up on the faction before jumping to conclusions." ( Montezuma )
' Wrote:I think that it depends on how militaristic the faction in question is. Personally, I don't think pushing for reputation adjustments should be the #1 choice because of paperwork involved if not anything else (alternatives are simple disciplinary punishments, something totally funny, just blowing them up on the spot and not bothering with it onwards, etc.). Again, I think it should be handled differently in different factions.
You've given an inRP and an ooRP reason for this order.
inRP is that you need every ship for the war. ooRP is that you wish to retain the freedom to operate there.
ooRP: I ask you this, what is the point of retaining the right to operate there if you aren't going to let anyone operate there? I understand you don't want the ID screwed with again, but the people that are being vocal about not leaving are not abusing their right to be there. They are not causing any issues. So what is the problem with allowing those individuals to operate there?
InRP: I honestly thing this is the strongest argument. Regardless of if you want to be part of the official BHG Core faction, you are part of the Core NPC faction. The RP of that faction is doing exactly what Core High Command tells you to do. Unless I've missed the part where the Core has already assaulted the Order in force he has a valid reason. Don't tell me its done because it was done on the event server, those events haven't happened inRP yet.
In conclusion: I don't see any reason ooRP that these people can't stay there as long as they don't act stupid, and I see no proof they have been. inRP there is concrete reasoning as to why they shouldn't be there.
' Wrote:Claims like these are not enforceable through server or ID rules. Nor for example is the Corsair claim to Theta, The Zoners claim to Theta, The SCRA's claim to O50, or the Hessians claim to O11. All of these are inrp claims that can only be enforces within the constraints of the rules.
I'd also like to add, that at least with Bretonia, we've made no issue over BHG/IMG capships in Omega-3, and thus the official factions of those NPC factions have no justifiable RP to restrict the access of indy caps to those reasons on account of "diplomatic problems", because there aren't any.
Which is just one more of several reasons I think the BHG|Core trying to control the indy cap's movement is complete bull. This goes for IMG| as well. Not every IMG has to sit around in Tau-23 all day like you do. In fact, some non-IMG people would be happy to see active IMG in the Omegas, to spread it out and give other areas in Sirius some activity besides Taus and Liberty.
As to the reasoning that he should restrict caps from going to the Omegas to prevent the ID from losing that right.. As Daedric said, what's the point of having it on the ID if you don't allow them to go there anyway? Also, this is an OORP reason, and thus not covered by FR2, which only allows for it to happen within RP reason. Furthermore, that's a decision made by the admins, not by your. Sorry Agmen, but this isn't your choice to make.
As to your RP reason concerning the need for ships, I've seen no lore saying that the BHG Core needs every last ship they have available. In fact, I see lore that you're winning the war. As far as I can tell, this reasoning was pulled out of nowhere.
' Wrote:As to the reasoning that he should restrict caps from going to the Omegas to prevent the ID from losing that right.. As Daedric said, what's the point of having it on the ID if you don't allow them to go there anyway? Also, this is an OORP reason, and thus not covered by FR2, which only allows for it to happen within RP reason. Furthermore, that's a decision made by the admins, not by your. Sorry Agmen, but this isn't your choice to make.
As to your RP reason concerning the need for ships, I've seen no lore saying that the BHG Core needs every last ship they have available. In fact, I see lore that you're winning the war. As far as I can tell, this reasoning was pulled out of nowhere.
Dab, if you'll recall, I was on the admin team at the time that the change in ID came about. I know maybe just a smidge about what was said behind the scenes by the guys with the tin foil hats, because we had some very beautiful <strike>arguments </strike>discussions about changing the ID in the first place.
The 'lore', as you put it, is in our standing orders. Which was made IN RP by us, and with our own reasoning behind it. We are a military organization - we issue orders, we don't HAVE to issue explanations. Or are you now saying that the faction leadership - which in this case is myself AND the other 8 Guildmasters, aren't allowed to say what OUR faction is going to do, and that every person that happens to buy a cap ship can do whatever they want that's not forbidden by the ID, such that Faction Rights are meaningless?
Until now, we've not had any issues with people not following that order.
As soon as you say, THOU SHALT NOT GO INTO THAT SYSTEM and put it into the ID, you're immediately restricting the possibility of future RP. It's entirely possible that at some point in the future we might NEED to bring a big cap fleet into Omega 3. And if so, it'll be justified by forum role play in advance. Pretty darned tough to do that when the ID says, YOU ENTER AND YOU GET SANCTIONED.
The sheer fact that two days ago I received a forum PM stating:
Quote:And i will make you nerf the id before i take my mako out of omega 7.
tells me that this person isn't interested in what's best for everyone else on the server, only what's best for him.
(11-21-2013, 12:53 PM)Jihadjoe Wrote: Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.
The sheer fact that two days ago I received a forum PM stating:
Dear former Administrator Agmen of Eladesor,
I would like to inquire as to whether you had permission to post that PM?
Sincerely,
n00bl3t.
Also, if the ID states they can go into the system, using FR2 to prevent them from going into the system seems like a form of abuse, especially when you want to leave the ID open so that people can still go into that system.
Quote:I'd also like to add, that at least with Bretonia, we've made no issue over BHG/IMG capships in Omega-3, and thus the official factions of those NPC factions have no justifiable RP to restrict the access of indy caps to those reasons on account of "diplomatic problems", because there aren't any.
You know Dab... you have a point. The Rheinwehr always complained when our caps entered the Omega 7 system, but IMG capital ships were never caught under the Omega treaty - as such there is no diplomatic reason for banishing them (yet), at least none that I am aware of. I thought for sure that this was included, but apparantly, the presence of a large non-house aligned faction or two (Zoners and IMG) were overlooked.
Wide awake in a world that sleeps, enduring thoughts, enduring scenes. The knowledge of what is yet to come.
From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.
Mostly retired Discovery member. May still visit from time to time.
' Wrote:You know Dab... you have a point. The Rheinwehr always complained when our caps entered the Omega 7 system, but IMG capital ships were never caught under the Omega treaty - as such there is no diplomatic reason for banishing them (yet), at least none that I am aware of. I thought for sure that this was included, but apparantly, the presence of a large non-house aligned faction or two (Zoners and IMG) were overlooked.
That treaty only covers relations between Rheinland and Bretonia, and that's why it has no mention of IMG or Zoners. Deals with the Zoners are occuring privately between them and ourselves concerning Omega-3. Any deals related to Omega-7 would be discussed with Rheinland, and wouldn't include us.
Also Agmen, that was a very interesting wall of text, but I don't see anywhere about roleplay reasons for restricting them from going into Omega-3 or -7. All I see are OORP reasons for restricting them, which doesn't fall under the official faction's authority.
Furthermore, please stop acting as if you created the BHG Core faction. It was added by Igiss, then you took over as the official faction.
So far you've given no roleplay justification for your restriction of BHG caps in the Omegas. Pretty clear in the rules that that is a requirement for demands from an official faction over indies. "We're the leadership and you have to do what we say!" is not roleplay justification.
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