Faction Right 2 and 5

[Govedo13]

Also, if the ID states they can go into the system, using FR2 to prevent them from going into the system seems like a form of abuse, especially when you want to leave the ID open so that people can still go into that system.

Quite simple, he wants to enable people to have more usage of the said capital ships. I think that Agmen can change the ID back if he wants but why should he castrate the usage of the ships because 2 or 3 people who missuse it?
He dont want to see people to hunt bounties in Battleships because it is lolwut and according to my views totally OORP.
Here is the change topic:
http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...=66380&st=0

"We're the leadership and you have to do what we say!" is not roleplay justification.

When 4 official factions agreed between themselves that the said BHG caps should not be in Omega 3,7 then there is no roleplay justification? Or what about Core ZoI? It was nomad worlds not Omegas right?
Corsair fighters pirate in Rheinland everyday. But if someone brings legate there the council would slap him.. why? Because of the roleplay justification... Now go to troll Corsairs too...
Hell Agmen is right here.
This ships have purpose to fight the Core wars in Nomad worlds. They are not for the bloody bounty hunting. They have different purpose..
So stop to troll him and let him to do his faction diplomacy as he will.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[n00bl3t]

Quite simple, he wants to enable people to have more usage of the said capital ships. I think that Agmen can change the ID back if he wants but why should he castrate the usage of the ships because 2 or 3 people who missuse it?
He dont want to see people to hunt bounties in Battleships because it is lolwut and according to my views totally OORP.
Here is the change topic:
http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...=66380&st=0

You see, I would believe all that "I do not want caps to hunt bounties" crap, if he did not just recently put a bounty on Zoners which were hunted by capital ships.

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Agmen of Eladesor]

You see, I would believe all that "I do not want caps to hunt bounties" crap, if he did not just recently put a bounty on Zoners which were hunted by capital ships.

You sound like a liberal news broadcaster, only picking out the parts of the reality that fit your side of the argument, and not presenting the whole background. But that's okay, I can fill in the missing pieces.

Order was staging from Zoner bases in the Omicrons. (Hey, isn't that in the Nomad areas that Govedo was mentioning? Amazing coincidence, eh?) The BHG|Core, in role play as being mean and nasty people with warships, pushed the Zoners in the Omicrons around until they capitulated. (Or at least that's how we see it from our side of things.)

The bounties were put out there as cherry on the sundae as part of our ROLE PLAY in the Omicrons. (And most of our pilots didn't claim that bounty - which got us in trouble with the admins, but I think we've resolved that as far as I can tell. We should have just shot you because of our RP and never bothered to post that bounty in the first place.) Or are you saying that we aren't allowed to role-play in the sector of the galaxy where we're supposed to be the most active?

In any event, back to the original intent of this thread - other than the first few posts, I haven't seen many other people answer the initial question I asked.

If the official faction follows the rules and issues an order under Faction Right 2, under what circumstances - if any - would they not be allowed to immediately follow that up with a Faction Right 5 if the FR2 orders were not followed?

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Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.

[Govedo13]

I cannot answer that question because I think it is pure admin thing. This topic and the change of the ID is other example that if you give the lolwuts finger they will abuse it and eat your hand...

All I can say is what I saw in game, done by other factions,look at the Zoners they FR5ed the corsair flagship simply because it was somewhere in space.

I also recently met a group of Outcasts who were FR5 by Hackers and Rogues because they rob a congress junker and answer the fire when combo from lawful-bounty hunters and LR members ganged em, so I saw people FR5ed for much less.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Jinx]

to clear that one up:

FR5 is requested - when a specific character ( or a group of characters ) has acted in a manner towards the requesting faction or parts of the faction that justifies a hostile reputation.

in earlier days - we would TRUST a players responsibility to adjust his reputation by himself. - that means.... i do NOT consider it a punishment to be hostile to someone i don t need to be - but i consider it a RP consequence.

because players do not live up to that responsibility - FR5 were introduced.



becoming hostile is a RP thing.

a little test was made - to just provide ooc evidence to justify a change of reputation - but without ANY roleplay. - the evidence showed the presence and hostile actions against a faction - but FR5 would only be conducted when the change of reputation was actually being RPed ( comm channels etc. )

--> just so you don t think its a pure ooc tool


how can one representative be flagged hostile "just for being there"?

cause it is a RP thing.

in a war - when soldiers commit attrocities - rape, pillage, murder, torture - those soldiers are guilty and to be punished ( if they are unlucky to loose the war - or if the winning side considers them harmful for their political progress )

but - they are only the "little" people being punished. - you ll always seek the higher ups who allowed it - who might have known about it and did nothing ( or supported it ) - and thats how you get a general accused for allowing rape, murder, pillage and torture. - even if he never did it himself ... or have been even close to it.

maybe he really didn t even know exactly anything about it - but still - if it was HIS troops doing it - he is responsible.

and that is how you can flag a specific member out of a crowd.


the above is ONE example that is NOT related to ANY game events at all - which only explains how it can come that you can FR5 someone ... in RP - even if he wasn t even around.




in terms of disco / freelancer - it would involve roleplay that clearly showed that any good will by the other side was met with hostility. - that attempts were conducted to deal with the situation and make REASONABLE demands - which could be met within disco canon.

whats left is :

FR5 are 100% in roleplay - and only done, cause the players that its applied to were too lazy to adjust the rep themselves - or unaware that it was asked of them.

if the later is the case - asking a player /ooc - to please become hostile due to : X actions - can help - and only if that player REFUSES - FR5 makes sense - provided the RP enviroment 100% justifies the actions.






edit:

for example: some of my chars don t need to be hostile to certain other factions - but my character considers them hostile due to specific actions that were done in the past. - so i OF COURSE adjusted my own rep to display the faction my character considers "hostile" to also show "red".

that happens both - when i am attacked repeatedly or when i wish to attack someone. - i don t need to wait for the other faction to request a FR5 - cause i adjust my rep myself as soon as my character considers them hostile.

and when i go out and shoot someone - i do OF COURSE turn hostile to that ID - no matter what.


when my enemy happens to carry the same ID that i carry - i will have to reflect upon myself and ask myself "is HE violating freelancer faction canon? - or am i pushing it too far"

and when i am honest to myself and it turns out it is i who pushes it too far - it may even be ME who must become red to my own faction.... thats what responsibility is for you.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[n00bl3t]

You sound like a liberal news broadcaster, only picking out the parts of the reality that fit your side of the argument, and not presenting the whole background. But that's okay, I can fill in the missing pieces.

Order was staging from Zoner bases in the Omicrons. (Hey, isn't that in the Nomad areas that Govedo was mentioning? Amazing coincidence, eh?) The BHG|Core, in role play as being mean and nasty people with warships, pushed the Zoners in the Omicrons around until they capitulated. (Or at least that's how we see it from our side of things.)

The bounties were put out there as cherry on the sundae as part of our ROLE PLAY in the Omicrons. (And most of our pilots didn't claim that bounty - which got us in trouble with the admins, but I think we've resolved that as far as I can tell. We should have just shot you because of our RP and never bothered to post that bounty in the first place.) Or are you saying that we aren't allowed to role-play in the sector of the galaxy where we're supposed to be the most active?

In any event, back to the original intent of this thread - other than the first few posts, I haven't seen many other people answer the initial question I asked.

I would say you sound like a conservative news broadcaster and all that, but the fact is you do not.

So far, all you managed to do was provide an Agmen play-by-play of events. (Not holistic and definitely biased.)

Now, if you have anything which actually addresses the lack of faith in your faction to conduct diplomacy, supply lines and operating in an acceptable manner, feel free to post it. (Because, your current post did not.)

As for your original question, the FR2 command you are proposing is abusing your official faction rights. (Especially since you are leaving BHG|Core- as allowed to operate in that area.)

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Agmen of Eladesor]

As for your original question, the FR2 command you are proposing is abusing your official faction rights. (Especially since you are leaving BHG|Core- as allowed to operate in that area.)

I just deleted a long and well written reply because I realized something. You make contrary posts to many, many things on this board simply because you like to argue and stir the pot, regardless of whether or not there is anything written to support your opponents position. Especially since I, in my OP, did not mention the BHG| in any way, but instead used the example of the LN.


Your commentary, instead, seems to support this - since we all know how you feel about authority and official factions. (And don't go Zoner on me, since they don't respect any authority at all, even their own.)

If every indy and their mother is allowed to "go rogue", then what point is there to the official factions?

(Apologies to Aeternus for cherry picking his comment, but that one line seemed to sum up exactly the point of all people arguing against this - they don't want Official Factions to exist or to have any powers.)

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Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.

[Daedric]

Question still stands, Agmen.

Why not let them operate there as long as they don't cause trouble? What exactly does that hurt?

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[n00bl3t]

I just deleted a long and well written reply because I realized something. You make contrary posts to many, many things on this board simply because you like to argue and stir the pot, regardless of whether or not there is anything written to support your opponents position. Especially since I, in my OP, did not mention the BHG| in any way, but instead used the example of the LN.
Your commentary, instead, seems to support this - since we all know how you feel about authority and official factions. (And don't go Zoner on me, since they don't respect any authority at all, even their own.)

So you are attempting to deny any relation to this topic and BHG|Core-?

Right. Come back when you can actually admit to being transparent about you thread's motives.

"You hate authority, even though you are one, but that one does not count in my eyes, even though it counts in everyone else's." (The part in quotes pretty much sums up your statement on me and official factions.)

But yes, I have been a part of official and unofficial factions, and I still am. Obviously, they are pure evil and I hate them. Ad hominem again please?

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[dodike]

But yes, I have been a part of official and unofficial factions, and I still am. Obviously, they are pure evil and I hate them.

Well, it had to come out sooner or later.

How are you feeling?