PvP on the RP server

[onca]

~sighs, missed the debate again~

At the risk of contradicting Igiss... not to mention Korrd's wonderful analogy....

Believe it or not, there are those of us here at Discovery who don't get off on PvP. Personally I don't give a flying frak if I get destroyed in combat, and I'm at the stage in my life where I don't need to win a shoot-em-up p***ing contest with some 13 year-old.

Of course I understand PvP is an integral part of RP... as people have stated, if we turn off PvP even for a while, we might as well sit around and shoot marshmellows at each other. Most likely what will happen is everyone will jump in the trains and use the opportunity for cash-whoring, and there'll be major traffic pileup at Harris.

Having said that, what I object to is seeing a server I like, and alot of people of like and respect, going to the dogs coz of a tsunami of PvP whores who care nothing for what this place stands for. And as Hood said, shutting off PvP is not unprecidented... we did it once before, and as I recall it actually did alot of good.

So to use another internal dialog example.....

"DAH ANY1 WANNA PVP ROFLZ!!!1111!!"
"HALT TRAD0R GIMME ALL UR MONEY OR DIE!!!1!111!!"
"WTFZOMG PVP NOT WRKING!!!!1111!!!! THIS SRVR SUX0RZ IM OUTA HERE ROLFZ!!!11111!!!1!"

Sounds good to me.

[Shadowfox]

When it comes down to it, it's really up to Igiss and the admins... But I still think it would render factions null and void.

The Phantoms like flying about monologing to themselves while the noobs in NY have a quizzical look on their faces.
---- i.e. :mellow:"What?"
So really, they would be okay, because they are perfectly content killing the Navy in 2 shots while floating about like the three evil cousins from Casper. Which is ironic...

But you couldn't enforce systems that you painstakingly bought for 600 million or anything like that.
Anyways, I'm not going to repeat my points since I know everyone here can read... But thats just my opinion.

And... in response to Unselie, does that mean I can kindly ask for your money next time I see you? :P

Response to Alpha... Two words that we were almost born with in our vocabulary. "Calm down."

Treewyrms solution actually makes the most sense in the long run. We could introduce a few more admins to help with the load.

And finally, in response to Harlequinn... Well said. And it actually makes sense. A paradox!:D

Well, I can give a noobs viewpoint on RP on this server.

I find it...well, difficult. So I've been flying around exploring and keeping my head down ( the perma-ban had something to do with that of course ;))

I haven't played Freelancer for years - in fact I'm here because I found it while throwing out a bunch of old games and thought it would be fun to boot it back up.

I have been spending a lot of on-line time playing NWN. Most servers are PvP based - get the best weps and gear and hack other players to pieces. Sound familiar? Boring once you have the best of everything.

I spend most of my time on a RP server. It's 100% RP, all the time. PvP too, but always in RP. Lots of factions that RP very well amongst themselves and other factions. Reading this thread got me thinking about how that server does it.

Here is what I came up with:
1. Since everyone RPs, noobs are guided by all players in earshot if they step out of line. I found the first few hours a bit of a shock, but found it suprisingly easy to fit in.
2. All gear and weps are severely nerfed. You need other players to survive. You step out of the city alone, the NPCs will tear your head off. You need to learn who you can trust and you need to cooperate.
3. You die (and you can die frequently and in many ways) and respawn, you come back naked and at a lower level. No gear. Nada. The higher the level you are when you die, the more levels you lose. You hope your trusty companions have retrieved your gear and return it to you. Some will steal it. See "learning who you can trust" above.
4. The NWN engine runs on XP. XP has been severely nerfed. You can advance a few levels solo, but then you have to find some friends. It's hard to earn money. No money, you starve. You see someone of high level with good gear, you respect the many hours of play it took to earn it. Not many players are of high level. NWN levels max out at 40. On that server, 10 is high level. Makes it interesting spending most of your time at low level. Like exploring Sirius in a Starflier with a Lvl 2 shield. It can be done, but you have to be really, really good....
5. Lots of help from other players. You make good friends with the other characters because you've had each others backs many times. That server is full most of the time and has a dedicated following of loyal players.

So, Discovery RP. It's hard for a noob to know what to do. A lot of the time system chat is "LOL", "wanna PvP?", etc. as pointed out in other posts. Some players RP a bit, some a lot. I think you could make Freelancer a good RP game, but not the way it is currently configured. It's too easy to make money, too easy to do it solo. You don't need other players to survive, hence you don't really need to RP. You can solo yourself to a good PvP ship in 30 hours play and fly around like a fool killing everyone in sight. You die? No problem, respawn with your ship and all your mounted gear. If you respawned in a Starflier with J1 guns, you might think twice about taking on that cap ship with your HF.

Just my rambling thoughts. The Admins do a great job running this server - I've found them fair and unbiased. The rules appear designed to prevent the worst of Pvp behaviour and , as with all rule sets, it appears they have evolved as situations required it. It's a great mod, and nerfing the weps and ships would gut a lot of the work that has gone into the mod. I don't think there is an easy fix here. Turning off PvP won't solve the problem for the folks who want more RP. The PvP server is a great idea but no one is on there, so the PvP folks have to come here for their fun. PvP is a necessary part of RP because it is a key part of the Freelancer universe. I think the community as a whole (or the Admins) may have to decide the extent of RP and how it should play out. If we want a strict RP server, something will have to change to drive it that way.

Back to trying to fly under the radar until I get the RP thing figured out.....

Shadowfox

[Jinx]

here s an example of how a hardcoded pvp would change it ( sort of the other way around )

a hardcoded one death rule. you die - you re DEAD. happy restart [starflyer, manhatten, 8500$]. ( that should exclude deaths that come from serverlags or bugs )

what would you get then?
- hardcore pvpers that gloat about killing someone ( you have those in every breed )
- MAYBE ... more intense roleplay. mercs being hired, cuase the alternative is to be absolutely helpless. pirates AND traders that actually roleplay their way around. cause ... engaging someone to KILL is really the very last thing someone wants.

does that work?
- sometimes it does - sometimes it does not. examples are diablo 2 hardcore, everquest hardcoded server (not existant anymore) - those "versions" adress a hardcore community. and it does cause serious emotions when a high level char actually ... dies.

just wanted to give you an example how pvp works into both directions. more and less roleplay. - in the end, its less the pvp, but more the ppl.

there should be some rules installed - player rules for players!
no suicide on intention to safe repair costs or get a character rollback to regain shot down weapons (really, thats lame - when your ship gets ripped apart you ll have to requippt it and not fly into the sun)
no killing within a faction! - should be fined with what hits the player the most - credits.

and if you say its combat practice - thats a poor practice that leaves one of the ppl DEAD. practice yes - but dont kill - if you re good enough, you can aswell practice without making a killshot.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Treewyrm]

Nay, hardcore PvP is a bad idea here. It'll just provoke more cheating/modding from those aiming to win in pvp by all means possible. Not to mention it'll end usage of fighters as we know it - everyone will be using battleships, as if we don't have this problem already. Further more there is already a penalty for death: sometimes you can loose your mounted weapons, you can loose your unmounted equipment, you loose your cargo. And that's enough.

As for practice there is type of duels commonly known as shield duels - you fight until you hit the hull. And while it doesn't make use of hull ripping weapons it still can provide some practicing. Wouldn't that what pilots in Freelancer do it if was real?

[GlyphStorm]

Nay, hardcore PvP is a bad idea here. It'll just provoke more cheating/modding from those aiming to win in pvp by all means possible. Not to mention it'll end usage of fighters as we know it - everyone will be using battleships, as if we don't have this problem already. Further more there is already a penalty for death: sometimes you can loose your mounted weapons, you can loose your unmounted equipment, you loose your cargo. And that's enough.

As for practice there is type of duels commonly known as shield duels - you fight until you hit the hull. And while it doesn't make use of hull ripping weapons it still can provide some practicing. Wouldn't that what pilots in Freelancer do it if was real?

Good point... I'll support training, but not the over exceeded pvping. And about the LOL thing, everytime I try to say something in RP, some weird guy say "lol" and such. For that reason, I simply don't RP in system chat. Fair and square. And easy.

Glyph

[Slavik]

PVp should be kept on the RP server, simpely because otherwize the server is going down, its just like people need to keep their PVP combat within the RP rules and like do trainings in conneticut or something.

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There used to be pictures here

once known as Richard Farbridge, OBE and Ronaldo Benitez

[Snip3rNife]

Sadly, I don't even RP with my Mercenary. I should really do something about that.

I've gone and joined the KNF, which should start me actually RPing. Now I need the skill to deserve my position in it.

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Known as on Discovery RP 24/7:
Thomas_Hill - Train
[KNF]TakajiKimura - Chimera
You may also know me elsewhere as I'll Begin or something including "Volbeat"

[AG. L.T.Smash]

Having freelancer without combat is like having a girlfriend who wants no sex.

I go with blunt on this one.

I have a wife like that...lol

[alance]

If the goal is reducing the amount of mindless and RP-less combat, then a better choice would be to password the server for a while to let things shake down a bit. I don't think removing PvP is a good idea as it is the focal point of many factions' interaction. i.e. I'll agree to shut off PvP when the Kusari and the Bret NPCs stop fighting:)

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"To gain a hundred victories in a hundred battles is not the highest excellence;
to subjugate the enemy's army without doing battle is the highest of excellence."

[Eppy]

...I thought we agreed that passwording the server was unnecessary, since the Global Server is going down in a few months anyway?

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Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.