@Athenian: There needs to be room for RP demands, which the rules provide. For example the Buccaneers were stopping traders and asking the ship captains to perform a wedding ceremony for Captain Morgan. Being forced to ask for cargo or credits only would be a serious restraint to player creativity.
I agree that a trader shouldn't be killed just for standing at the tradelane waiting for it to come up. Get him away or issue your demand fast enough.
Quote:6.6 Aggressors are not allowed to destroy a trade vessel prior to issuing a demand and allowing sufficient time to respond. Demands may be cargo, credits or an RP demand, such as leaving the system. "Halt" is not a demand.
This part solely addresses situations just like this.
Leaving the system is solely to do with the movement of a ship and that cannot be denied.
Therefore, demanding that someone moves away from the lane is grand.
That's just plain logic.
' Wrote:I agree that a trader shouldn't be killed just for standing at the tradelane waiting for it to come up. Get him away or issue your demand fast enough.
That is why you are allowed to damage him. You can do all the things around, without to issue the deman yet.
The only thing you can not do is to blow him up.
Want him moved? Ask him to do with your kind and friendly pirate voice! *Female computer voice: "Turret lost"*
Thats what they hear if they don't come along with the order to move away from the lane.
Though you need to make a demand in roleplay, or at least roleplay at all.
"Good day gentlemen, please move away from the lanes for your own safety. Otherwise you may lose a turret"
5.2 needs to be pleased before you fire and strip him.
EDIT: Since you need to type aynthing here, you could simply throw in your demand first and afterwards request to leave the lane queue.
I personally would say ask him to move away, if he ignores burn him some. If he still doesn't listen kill him for the lolwutter he is. But:
Quote:Just do NOT keep telling the guy to stop, cut his engines, or anything that is solely to do with movement of his ship. Laran is correct in his interpretation, as it is enforced by the admin team.
Couldn't telling him to move away from the lane be taken as a RP demand? I think it could and I am a trader.
If you can blow up a trader simply because he doesn't do what you ask, then there is no end to the sorts of things people will try to get away with. Like demanding a trader flies his ship into the sun, or dock at a base when you know he can't. RP demands that are impossible to comply with or are wholly unreasonable are a cheap substitute for a Terrorist ID. We won't ever set down what we regard as "reasonable" because you can be sure that however low the standard we set, people will stoop to meet it.
But for argument's sake, let's say that moving from the lane is a demand. If he does move fom the lane, then he has complied with your demand, which makes further demands questionable. You can't demand a million from a trader then demand more after he pays - that at least was the traditional idea behind the "paying for passage" aspect of pirate vs. trader interactions. Traders will attempt everything to avoid paying, and not just as characters...it seems players resort to everything - including threats to report, f1 ing, everything. But they soon learn.
I'd prefer to think of piracy more holistically - the pirate is concerned with theft and possibly the commission of violence to aid that theft. They can take all measures to facilitate that - but theft should be the goal, not murder. That is why we have Terrorist ID's.
' Wrote:I r confused.
Couldn't telling him to move away from the lane be taken as a RP demand? I think it could and I am a trader.
It's a case of we have to set some guidelines. There is a certain minority that actually would have no issues with simply making it "space is dangerous, have a nice day" and removing all restrictions. But that would just make us another PvP server.
(11-21-2013, 12:53 PM)Jihadjoe Wrote: Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.
' Wrote:It's a case of we have to set some guidelines. There is a certain minority that actually would have no issues with simply making it "space is dangerous, have a nice day" and removing all restrictions. But that would just make us another PvP server.
Okaaaaaayyy... so write a rule that specifically states that asking traders to move away from a downed tradelane is a valid demand. Why is that so hard? I understand that theft is the ultimate goal, and not murder, but fear is the motivating factor. If a trader can rest easy knowing that a pirate cannot kill him without recieving a sanction, the trader becomes more and more obstinant in refusing to pay. That very fact makes the number of traders who will actually pay a demand go down. That is why pirates need to be able to kill if a target refuses to move from a tradelane. Otherwise, the wise guy will just sit there and ignore the "warning shots" because he knows there is nothing more deadly the pirate can do to him until he asks for money or cargo. All that time, the trader is mashing F3. Surely this addition to the pirate arsenal isn't going to break the camel's back.
' Wrote:What I don't like in this whole deal is the 'Senor please stop' bull. Realistically, you won't hear that from a pirate, and I'm tired of all the 'make a donation to feed the children of Crete' non-sense. Be more creative. You're a space predator 1000 years in the future, act like one.
i totaly agree! i mean come on theres this one time i got a demand saying "Make a donation to feed the people of crete (something like that anyways)" cant you people come up with something different and creative and once a molly was like "make a donation and ye can leave with the gold (from dublin)" *sigh* gosh
Athenian already summed it up. Does he really need to paint it green so you take it as it is?
If you make a demand and the trader follows this demand, you CAN NOT kill him anymore, nor demand more items/money/silly stuff.
If a lawfull pilot orders you to move away from a certain area and you do, he can not pester you again for the same stuff for a while. unless you move to the next prohibited area.
Same goes for the pirates. If you demand 500k credits, you have to let him go.
If you demand 5 nanobots and get them, the trader is off the hook.
If you ask him to do a barrel roll and spin 5 times, then its also a demand. Off the hook again.
Simple as that.
There is no need to add more rules. Use common sense on the existing ones and especialy on those which got explained already a 100 times .
Meet the trader.
Make a demand (no, stop is not a demand and keep it reasonable).
Once he went along with your kindly expressed wish you let them go.
' Wrote:Is that enought for me to have the right to kill the trader? Is this a reasonable damand same as cargo or credits?
Now this might look rought, but after few times trader will see his shiop explode next time perhaps he won't ignore the pirates demand?
Simple ... first thing you say when he gets to the trade lane ... or even better ... while you're on the way to the trade lane is, "hand over 1 mil." Make sure the time stamp is on your comms or use the /time command. Give him a few seconds to respond. He doesn't respond ... take his shields down and work on his hull. You might even give him a second chance to respond before actually destroying him. Still no response ... destroy the trader and take whatever falls out.
' Wrote:I'd say no, because 'halt' isn't a demand either, and the goal of moving the trader away from the lane is the same as saying 'halt', to prevent him from running.
Just gotta demand some credits or cargo before destruction. That takes about 2 seconds. Then give him a few seconds to respond. Chances are he's just sitting still hitting F3. He doesn't respond he's toast.